Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have eight person years that are assigned to community transfers. Presently, we have one vacancy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that there is both an eastern and western section, both with four employees assigned to each division. Is the one vacancy that the Minister made reference to in the east or in the west? Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, there are actually three vacancies. One is in the east and one is assigned to the west. Also, under the western Arctic community transfer, we had two community liaison coordinators. One was vacated voluntarily a month or so ago and the other person is on loan to the self-government function. Technically, it's a vacancy but it has been vacated on loan, seconded. In the east, the executive director position that was formerly filled by Sheila Bassi is presently vacant.

Mr. Chairman, with all these people under the community transfer section, could I ask the Minister if he could update us on the number of communities which have been involved in the community transfer initiative?

Mr. Chairman, there are 74 communities, I believe, in the Northwest Territories. I wonder whether the Member will simply allow me to provide briefing documents which would show the history of community transfers since the beginning, some four years ago, and the amount of activity and work done to date. We do have, for instance a listing which shows the number of communities that have expressed initial interest or have requested information workshops on the community transfer initiative since 1992; which is some 45 communities. The interest has been high.

In some communities, we have started having discussions and workshops, and the communities are taking the time to have internal discussions about whether or not they are prepared to make further commitments. Other communities -- for instance, McPherson -- have indicated that, at this time, they are not prepared to do any further work. The implementation of the Gwich'in claim and the business interests of the community have taken centre stage, the entire stage, so to speak, at this time. The leadership has indicated to us that they support the concept of the community transfer initiative but they are not prepared to do anything specific at this time.

We are continuing to hold the position that we're not going to go out and actively sell the initiative. We know that people are interested and they will do it when they are prepared and feel their priority is transfers. As a government, we're prepared to do business. The store is open, so to speak, but we're not taking the approach that everybody should be doing it. We're simply open for business and when business is called for by different communities, we shall respond. We're prepared and organized to do it. Thank you.

I am looking forward to that summary, Mr. Chairman. Earlier, the Minister indicated that there are a number of vacancies. Can I ask the Minister how long these vacancies have existed?

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, the executive director position, which was vacated at the end of January, is presently being advertised. Once that position is filled, we will move to advertise for the community liaison coordinator for the western Arctic part of the community transfers. Regarding the other community liaison coordinator, which I said was on loan to the self-government task, we have no intention of advertising for that since the person still holds that position. They're simply on loan to help with the self-government aspect of our work.

Mr. Chairman, the Minister indicated that there were two positions. One was the executive director for the east, which is being advertised and one is a secondment into the self-government area. The other position he said was also vacant is the community liaison coordinator. What about that position? Is that being advertised? How long has that been vacant?

The Member just missed part of my comments. I said we're presently advertising for the executive director position and once we fill that, we will move to advertise for the community liaison coordinator position, which was vacated in February. The second community liaison position is not a secondment, it is a loan. We're simply aiding the self-government task which is burdened with work because we are also helping with the Constitutional Development Steering Committee work, and have been for some time; namely, Mr. Iveson.

In order to help, one of our staff, Gabriela Sparling, has been assigned temporarily to help with that workload. She still fills the community liaison coordinator position so we have no intention of advertising that position. We're advertising for two positions; one presently and one in the near future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, earlier, the Minister indicated that there has been a lot of interest expressed by a number of communities. If I recall, out of 70 odd communities, he indicated about 45 communities expressed interest. If I recall correctly, Mr. Chairman, when we first announced this initiative, there was great interest expressed by all communities; particularly medium-sized communities such as Cape Dorset and Fort Good Hope which have successfully completed transfers. But, after looking at how the initiatives were being handled, a lot of communities were turned off because of the complications of the process we have in place.

I disagree, at this point in time, with the Minister saying that there's a lot of interest out there. I don't think that's the case. In my view, Mr. Chairman, the interest is no longer there. I would like to ask the Minister if he could provide to our committee the names of the communities that his staff have travelled to in the last year and how many of these communities are seriously pursuing transfer of this particular initiative; transfer of programs for this initiative?

Mr. Chairman, just a couple of questions ago I had asked the Member if he would be prepared to accept, instead of an hour-long presentation from me on all the work that we've done -- all the travel, the workshops, the funding that we've provided to communities, the visits, and all the transfers that have been completed, the ones that are being negotiated now -- if he would simply take that in the form of a briefing papers and he had agreed. This is where we got into difficulty with the Member yesterday as well. He's also now saying that we haven't done anything and interest is waning. I would suggest to the Member that he should wait before he makes categorical statements like that, because they're simply not true and it makes it difficult to have a good discussion when you make categorical statements like that based on whatever it is that you're basing it on.

For instance, there are more communities than just Fort Good Hope and Cape Dorset that have completed transfer agreements. I can, just for the Member's appreciation, list them and then give him an indication of the amount of work that has been done to date.

In Fort Good Hope, for instance, we've done the one on economic development and we've done one on renewable resources. We've done an aide memoire that sort of leads to a framework agreement; that's going to be resulting in the community looking, for instance, at social services and all the agreements that they could take on under that scope.

In Cape Dorset we've completed social services, economic development and public works and housing.

In Holman we've done public works.

In Aklavik we've done economic development and renewable resources and we have a memorandum of understanding under which we will continue to look at other transfers.

In Tuk we've done economic development and public works.

In Fort Providence we've done economic development plus we have a memorandum of understanding there as well.

In the town of Inuvik, we've done economic development and lotteries which was a significant development last year.

In Fort Norman we've done economic development plus we have a memorandum of understanding.

In Fort McPherson and Tsiigehtchic we have economic development and an MOU that we completed before McPherson indicated that that's as far as they were prepared to go at this time. We're continuing with our discussions with Tsiigehtchic on other elements as they come up.

Coppermine, we've done economic development and a trainer memorandum of understanding.

Cambridge Bay we have social services and economic development.

In Grise Fiord we've done renewable resources and a memorandum of understanding.

In Resolute we've done renewable resources and a memorandum of understanding.

Arctic Bay, we've done renewable resources and a MOU there as well.

There are transfers pending in Holman for the executive service officer; in Pelly Bay for the executive service officer; in Gjoa Haven for the executive service officer; Arviat, for lotteries; Cape Dorset is now looking at government services and an officer position; in Deline we're looking at lotteries; Fort Norman, we're looking at lotteries; Tsiigehtchic, we're looking at social services; Aklavik, we're looking at social services, public works, housing maintenance and the power maintenance. These are all pending final negotiations.

In Inuvik we're talking about social services; Norman Wells, we've just completed transfer of the natural gas system so they are now prepared to continue picking up discussions where they left off some years ago on other interests they have in taking on other transfers.

In terms of contributions, the amount of money we've given out, in 1993-94, we gave out a total of $294,500. In 1994-95 we've given out the same amount, $296,830. In terms of the work done and the amount of money that we're advancing to continue the work, it's looking good and I don't understand the Member suggestion that interest is waning. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, in my view, although this initiative was a good one when we first announced it -- sure, it had a lot of interest -- the interest isn't there now. There are some communities that want, say, an EDO position and a lot of them that the Minister outlined are only one-program positions. No substantial... various programs where the community itself would be more in control of, for instance, social services, public works, housing, et cetera. Although the Minister indicated that these programs are being negotiated and they are still liaising with the communities, there hasn't been that much movement, in my view, because a lot of them that the Minister outlined are still pending. How long does it take? It doesn't take four years. We completed, in my view, basically two communities. One is Fort Good Hope and the other is Cape Dorset. Those are two substantial ones that you can really say were a success.

I disagree with my colleague, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, when he says there is a lot of interest, that everybody is asking for his staff to come in and provide these types of workshops and to start negotiating and developing memorandums of understanding, et cetera. I don't think that's the case. The public has to know exactly what's happening. For instance, in my area there is no interest. Even south of the lake; I haven't heard the Minister mention any communities south of the lake. You mentioned primarily the east, the Inuvialuit area and some in the Delta. I agree with him that when we first started this initiative, there was a lot of interest expressed but once they saw how complicated it was, it was more difficult for the communities to deal with the process that we put in place. Although the Minister indicated that in 1993-94 we expended, in terms of conservation, $294,500 and in the following year $296,830, that isn't a substantial amount that we are talking about; only a few positions that we've given them and maybe a few office supplies to go with them. But, there hasn't been a substantial transfer taking place in a lot of our communities; I can really say something has happened in our only two: in Cape Dorset and Fort Good Hope. In that respect, Mr. Chairman, in my view, the progress has been very slow in this area.

Mr. Chairman, funding which was identified for community transfers is scattered, not only within this department here but it is scattered throughout the entire budget. Why hasn't the Minister considered consolidating the funding for communities evolving in this initiative in single-line items in the budget; this would better allow monitoring of the effectiveness of the transfer and might provide more flexibility to communities in using the transferred funds. I would like to ask the Minister why hasn't he considered doing that?