Thank you. We have two yeas, 14 nays and four abstentions. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

For the record, at the witness table we have Mr. Dent and Ms. MacPherson and we are dealing with clause 2 of Bill 32. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recognize that under the current Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the Members of this Assembly have under convention as it's stated by other Members, the ability to punish Members who have been convicted under the Criminal Code. Whether the Members decide to do so is up to the Members of this Assembly. I've been a Member for the past eight years and I've noted that whether a Member gets into any type of trouble with the law, when it comes into the public forum all Members stay quiet about it. Members may apologize to the House or whatever, but whether we actually enforce that act or not is discretionary.

I would like to ask legal counsel whether there is a need for this particular clause since it's my understanding that under our current act, we can discipline a Member accordingly. I would like some clarification on that. Thank you.

Ms. Stewart, the legal counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As has already been mentioned by a number of the Members, in fact, clause 2 is a very specific instance or a specific example of a power that already rests in the Legislative Assembly. The Legislative Assembly has the power, has the right to expel Members for such reasons as it sees fit, provided that it does not attempt to limit the ability of the Member to run again and be re-elected. That's how it does exist in the Legislative Assembly at the moment.

Thank you. Clause 2. The Member for Thebacha.

Can I get clarification? Under the current act that we're amending, the Legislative Assembly has the right or the power to expel a Member if they feel it's in the public interest to remove that particular Member. Is that correct?

Ms. Stewart, legal counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry, I wasn't perhaps as clear as I might have been. The power does not exist in statute or in the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. The power is an inherent power. It exists to protect the honour and the integrity of the legislative Assembly so it does not exist in the act. It is an inherent power and it does permit the Legislative Assembly to do the things that are set out in clause 2, whether clause 2 exists or not.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Mr. Chairman. I'm just trying to determine...It is not currently in our act to discipline other Members, is that correct?

Ms. Stewart, legal counsel.

That's correct. It's not set out in the act. It is one of the privileges of the House, in the same way that the House might have a privilege with respect to defamatory statements that might be made in the House, control over publication, the ability to exclude strangers from the House, that kind of matter. It's an inherent power, an inherent privilege of the Legislative Assembly.

Thank you. Clause 2. Mrs. Marie- Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm trying to get some clarity about how to avoid double standards, where Members are convicted by the law. Can we get some kind of legal opinion with respect to double standards being created by this clause, in the event it passes? There may be cases where Members are found guilty of an offence and where other Members are found guilty and given a conditional discharge; the Member found guilty and convicted cannot sit as a Member, and the other Member found guilty and given a conditional discharge can sit. Therefore, is it correct to state that clause 2 can cause double standards in the amendment to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act that is being put forth?

Legal counsel, I don't know if you can answer the question about double standards in a legal aspect.

To the extent where there's a legal interpretation, Mr. Chairman, the interpretation would be that clause 2 creates one single standard. If the person is convicted, they will be dealt with in a certain way, depending on whether or not they're convicted of an indictable offence or a summary conviction offence. I suppose if there is a double standard, it would relate to the disposition of the person in the court but not in the Legislative Assembly. The single standard applies where there is a conviction.

Thank you. Clause 2. Member for Thebacha.

So, if that's the case, Mr. Chairman, how does it apply to Members who are found guilty and given conditional discharges?

Thank you. Ms. Stewart.

A person who is given a discharge is considered, in the eyes of the law, not to be convicted and therefore does not fall within the provisions of clause 6.1.(1) and 6.1.(2), Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Clause 2. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like clarification on clause 6.1.(2) where it reads "...where a member who, after his or her election, is convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code punishable on summary conviction." There is a section reading the following: "The Legislative Assembly shall, as soon as reasonably practical, determine whether it is necessary in the public interest and in the interest of the Legislative Assembly, to expel the Member from the Legislative Assembly and to declare that his or her seat is vacant."

Is this particular clause correct that the Assembly can remove an elected Member provided they are found guilty? If they are found guilty and given a conditional discharge, then they cannot remove that Member.

Thank you. Legal counsel, Ms. Stewart.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That interpretation of the Member is correct. If they are convicted, the process will ensue where the Legislative Assembly must make a determination. If they are found guilty or plead guilty, are found guilty and given a discharge, they are not considered to be convicted and no determination need be made under that section, although there is always the remedy under 6.2.