Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is no quota on Dall Sheep in the Mackenzie Mountains. This is the only place in Canada and the United States where there is no limit on how many sheep are hunted by big game hunters. There is no way to monitor the sheep, except from the outfitters

themselves. This is what we are told. We have to believe what the outfitters tell us. An outfitter could book 100 hunters in one zone, and they could take 100 sheep out there and there is no real control. This is the concern that I've heard from different people in my constituency; the problem of overhunting the sheep in the Mackenzie Mountain ranges.

There is a real danger for overhunting in the big game hunting zones. This could be detrimental to the animal population in the mountains, west of the communities I represent. This is a traditional area of a lot of the Dene people. An outfitter could hunt an area hard for a few years, then sell out the area for enormous profits. These zones have become assets to the people who are the outfitters.

There are four types of big horn sheep in North America, and the Dall Sheep is one of them. The others are very well controlled, I'm told. For example, in British Columbia, each area is regulated by quotas. The local biologist determines how many sheep could be taken out of an area; lot's say, eight or 12 out of a hunting zone. This is the quota for one hunting area and it is very well controlled.

Mr. Speaker, in order to determine quotas we need to survey and count the animals in the mountains, especially the sheep, on an annual basis. The government will say there's no money, so I would like to make one suggestion, Mr. Speaker: let us place a higher fee on each of the non-resident hunters who come into our area so they could pay for the survey and counting of these animals. For example, in order to pay for the survey, let's say $1,000 per tag for each non-resident hunter. This is a request for support in this area, Mr. Speaker.

Another problem I have is that there is a request by big game hunters for grizzly bear tags now. Here again, I have to oppose this because I need to know the status of the population in the Mackenzie mountains of the grizzly bears before I approve anything like this.

Mr. Speaker, my time has run out. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

The Member for Nahendeh is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The problem is not only with sheep, Mr. Speaker, but has to do with moose, caribou and the different animals in the mountains. We don't know how many there are and there is really no good way of surveying them. There are occasional fly-over surveys, but that is not good enough, Mr. Speaker.

Historically, Mr. Speaker, big game hunting zones were practically given away in the 1970s by the Commissioner of the day. There were five zones and now there are more; there are eight, I believe. Now, we're stuck with the outfitters who control these hunting zones and mountains. They are the only ones allowed to take non-resident hunters into the mountains and the aboriginal people are cut out of the deal. These outfitters all live in the south, Mr. Speaker, and though they are available for sale for enormous amounts of money if they become available, the amounts are impossible for the aboriginal people from the communities to have access to.

Mr. Speaker, recently there was a meeting in Fort Simpson where aboriginal people and leaders met with the outfitters from the mountains. As a result of this meeting, some decisions were made that there would be closer cooperation between the outfitters and aboriginal leaders. Hopefully, this will improve the situation and help the concerns of people in my constituency. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some comments to make, Mr. Speaker, about Bill C-68, the gun control bill. I have been a little bit concerned because there seems to have been some surveying done about people's attitudes and opinions on this issue. In my own attempt to get a feel for public opinion, Mr. Speaker, I found that there is a difference in the way people react, according to whether they're a gun owner or whether they're not a gun owner. That should be obvious, I suppose, but it would be very easy to take a survey of people and, if the vast majority of them don't own guns and you ask them about gun registration, they would say there would be no problem that they have to register their car, have to have a licence for their dog and they don't see a problem With having a gun registered.

However, if you're a gun owner, automatically --because you know what's in this bill --you would say this is under the Criminal Code of Canada, and I'm being treated as though I'm a potential criminal. They want me to register my gun because they don't trust me. It's very easy to do a survey to get the public opinion that people don't have any problems with registering rifles or guns.

So, Mr. Speaker, in my attempt to find out what people really felt, first of all, I found that people are very, very upset that a government which has a huge deficit could be faced with an act which costs -- according to various estimates depending on whether you're in the opposition or the government -- anywhere between $78 million and $500 million just to carry out the registration program. A lot of people are concerned about that. The biggest concern that people have, though, is if you really want to have some system for registering these guns, then why couldn't it be done not in a crime bill -- and that's what this is, a crime bill -- but like with any other thing that you own, so there would be registry. Even though it would be tremendously costly, the public would at least see that it has nothing to do with them and their potential to be involved in criminal activity.

I say any efforts that we make right now in trying to lobby the Senate to make changes and so on, will make no change to the fundamental nature of the bill, which is a crime bill. That's what northerners find offensive. Peace-loving people who own rifles, not to protect their property or to shoot people they don't like, are going to be treated as potential criminals. We are unlike the people in Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver because we don't see guns in the same way. That's what I found in my survey of local people. It depends on who you're talking to. If you own a gun, you know all the implications and if you don't own one, you have to be educated on what this bill is all about.

I wish our people the best of luck in Ottawa, but you can't change the fundamental nature of this bill, which is a crime bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I won't be making a reply to the opening address but, because the 12th Assembly is drawing to a close, I would like to make a brief statement of appreciation. I would like to thank all of my constituents who, since May of 1993, have granted me the privilege of serving as their MLA. I would like to recognize and thank my many friends and supporters who encouraged me to seek this office and I would like to say for the public record, and to them, that I will be seeking a new mandate on October 16th.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, since February of 1995, I have also had the honour of representing the NWT as Minister of MACA and I would like to thank Members of this House for affording me that privilege. For those Members who won't be seeking re- election, who are retiring or moving on to pursue other matters, I would like to wish you all the best. I thank you all for the guidance, support and encouragement that you provided to me and the way you welcomed me to the Assembly through the caucuses and committees I sat on, and into Cabinet as well.

I would like to recognize two Members of this House who have officially declared that they will be retiring, both Mr. Patterson and Mr. Pudluk. For Mr. Patterson --although he isn't here now, I know he reads the Hansard so he will read these comments --I don't know whether it is a result of his experience on Cabinet or whatever, but I would like to say that he has taught me that you can say a lot without really saying anything.

---Laughter

Secondly, he has offered advice to me on many occasions, but I would like to thank him for not offering me advice on how to assemble a tie collection.

---Laughter

And, for Mr. Pudluk, who said in his reply that he misses the way I touched his legs since I came over here on this side, that although I don't miss touching his leg, I do miss sitting beside him. For the record, I would like to say that when I did accidentally brush his leg, it was not for sexual purposes at all.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to thank the staff of the Assembly, and in particular, Mr. Hamilton. I know many people have said that he has been a father to them but to me, he has been more like a grandfather.

---Laughter

I would like to say that it's not because of our age difference, but because of the fact that I'm one of the younger, newer Members, he has probably tolerated me a lot more than he would other Members.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude.

The Member for Kitilkmeot is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Members, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to thank the staff in the ministerial office, both Lisa Morgan and Joan Irwin. Although they've been there only a short time, I realize that without them, a Minister could get lost very quickly. I'd also like to recognize and thank the staff of the department. I'm fortunate because I believe MACA is one of the more respected departments and is recognized throughout the NWT as such.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my family. Before I came to this Assembly, I had lots of opportunities to travel but never to the extent that becoming a Member of this House has afforded me. For those of us who don't live in Yellowknife, being absent from home for long periods of time is very stressful on family life. I would like to recognize my wife, Susie, and thank her for being a single parent while I've been gone. I would like to thank all my children for forgiving me for all the occasions I haven't been available for them.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to all NWT residents, to Members of the House, and staff, have a safe and happy summer. I hope to run into all of you, in whatever capacity we may be in, in the future. Thank you, very much.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, colleagues. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery, Paula Stanton-Stanford and Peter Stanford. Ms. Stanford is the daughter of Dr. Oliver Stanton who was the first doctor in the Yellowknife area in the 1930s and for whom the Stanton Hospital is named.

As well, I would like to recognize Barb Bromley, one of the pioneers of the city of Yellowknife.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I've noticed some seniors who are also visiting our gallery. I don't know whether it's because they're not from the

area that they're not being recognized, but welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

I missed one item, item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns to oral questions, one asked by Mr. Koe on June 8th with respect to the role of economic development officer teams.

As Mr. Koe noted, I had indicated to the House that it was the intention to fill these positions by June 30th. The planning required for the positions is running behind schedule and the positions will not be filled by June 30th. However, the department will have completed the general plan for deployment by the end of the month and I am optimistic that we will fill them at that time.

Mr. Speaker, I have another return asked by Ms. Mike on June 7th with respect to the origin of sealskin products.

On June 7th, the honourable Member for Baffin Central asked me, through the Premier, if we were trying to enhance the economies of Newfoundland and Ontario by developing prototype sealskin products or enhance the economy of the Northwest Territories.

Economic Development and Tourism is participating with Renewable Resources and the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans in a study to explore possible uses of seal products in the Baffin region. During the course of this study, the consultants concluded that there was a possibility of marketing some sealskin products, particularly when the fur has been dyed.

Some northern skins were processed through a southern tannery which had the ability to dye the fur. Some skins were returned to Minnguq where, with the assistance of the consultants, new designs were fashioned into prototypes. Other prototypes were put together in southern Canada. The prototype products were then test marketed with very positive results in both the NWT and southern Canada. The prototypes, put into production, will expand the variety of products manufactured in the Northwest Territories with respect to sealskins. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three returns to oral questions asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

The position of manager of air operations and administration has been discontinued and the incumbent has received a written notice of lay-off.

Another return to question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell, waiving employment procedures for fire suppression staff.

The manager of air operations and administration has received a written notice of lay-off from the deputy minister of Renewable Resources indicating that the requirement to work for three months was being waived.

Another return to question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell; employment status of Bird Dog officers.

At this point, I can confirm that no air attack officers are flying with the DC-4 air tankers. Thank you.

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Antoine on June 15th regarding the status of community water pumps for fire protection.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has followed up on the suggestions of the Member and the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance to review options for fire protection in small communities.

Mr. Speaker, our review of the options for using portable water pumps, of a Wajax or similar type, found there were limited supplementary benefits to the fire suppression equipment currently in small communities. Cold weather problems with pumps and hoses limit their use in winter, set-up time for pump and host systems is too lengthy for quick response, the size and weight of pumps necessary to pump water any distance is a distinct disadvantage and, the pressure from these types of pumps provide marginal water flow rates for tire suppression. The office of the fire marshal has not sanctioned pump and hose systems as a reliable means of lire suppression.

The department believes that a rapid, coordinated response with the dry chemical fire truck, the water truck and the loader is the most effective means of containing and controlling fires in small communities. These methods could apply to the small brush fires in communities that the Member mentioned.

As Members will appreciate from our experiences with fires in the Sahtu and other areas, community fire suppression equipment is a minor component of the efforts of forest fire management. In my reply to the honourable Member for Thebacha, I noted work is being undertaken to upgrade and rebuild community fire breaks as one measure to improve protection from major forest fires.

Mr. Speaker, the department is also focusing on means to improve fire protection within communities. Several of these initiatives were announced last session in presenting our 1995- 96 budget and include the firefighters training program now being developed. A course is scheduled this fall for the Fort Simpson area, and the firefighters from small communities in the region will be trained in the use of dry chemical fire trucks and brush firefighting. Other initiatives include public education, on such matters as minimizing the burning of community garbage, and a current study on ways to improve fire alerting in communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Dent on June 8, 1995. It concerned the inclusion of non-insured health benefits in the health billings agreement.

Mr. Speaker, by way of a contribution agreement, the Government of the Northwest Territories administers and delivers, on behalf of Health Canada, the non-insured health benefits program to Inuit and registered Indians in the Northwest Territories. Under the terms of the agreement, invoices are paid by the territorial government and submitted monthly for reimbursement from the federal government.

The 1995-96 budget amount for the non-insured health benefits program is $15.7665 million. This amount was proposed by Health Canada following a review of the previous year's expenditures.

Mr. Speaker, a unilateral cut by Canada for non-insured health benefits across Canada would impact the Northwest Territories by way of section 25 of the agreement which states:

"In accordance with section 40 of the Financial Administration Act, R.S., 1985, c. F-11, payment here under is subject to there being an appropriation for the fiscal year in which any commitment here under would come due for payment."

This provision of the agreement allows Canada to limit payment under the non-insured services program to amounts appropriated. As a result, a unilateral cut across Canada would reduce funding available to Inuit and registered Indians in the Northwest Territories for non-insured benefits.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health and Social Services is corresponding with her federal counterpart with regard to the comprehensive review that Health Canada is conducting relative to the non-insured health benefits program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.