This is page numbers 1471 - 1524 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was ---agreed.

Topics

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 -

The Education Act; Bill 25, Education Act; and, Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96, with Mr. Whitford in the chair. Prior to that, by the authority given the Speaker by Motion 16-12(7), I place the House in committee of the whole until such time as the committee is prepared to report out.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend the committee consider first of all Bill 34, and if we should complete Bill 34, then move on to Committee Report 11-12(7) and Bill 25.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. The committee agrees that we shall deal with Bill 34 and, time allowing, Committee Report 11-12(7) and Bill 25. Bill 34 in your green binders under tab 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96. Is the Minister of Finance prepared to make his opening remarks?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96, requests authority for additional appropriations of $31.903 million. This supplementary appropriation consists of additional appropriations in the amount of $1.192 million in O and M and $30.711 million in capital.

Mr. Chairman, the significant amounts included in Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96 are $21.252 million for capital carryovers and $2.352 million for the building and learning strategy. This increase, Mr. Chairman, is fully offset by $1.767 million in reductions from various departments and a contribution of $585,000 from the NWT Housing Corporation. There's $9.8 million for the Canada/NWT infrastructure program. Mr. Chairman, this increase is offset by reductions to various departments in the amount of $1.9 million, a $3 million contribution from the NWT Housing Corporation and the federal government share of $4.9 million.

Mr. Chairman, transfers between various departments in the amount of $34.223 million to effect the transfer of the social assistance program from the Department of Health and Social Services to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and transfers between the Department of Personnel and the Department of the Executive to effect the establishment of the Personnel Secretariat.

These supplementary appropriations are not anticipated to worsen the forecast deficit for 1995-96. Mr. Chairman, the high level of capital carryovers, does exceed our provisions for carryovers, but the trend to a higher carryover level will undoubtedly continue until we can address the underlying causes. As a result, Mr. Chairman, we've revised our forecast of the level of lapse of appropriation authority in 1995-96 to more realistically reflect the level of carryovers that will occur.

Mr. Chairman, I would also note that the result for 1994-95 is expected to improve due to the high level of capital carryovers from that fiscal year, although we will not have the final results for 1994-95, Mr. Chairman, until later on this summer.

Mr. Chairman, at the time that the supplementary appropriation document as prepared, there were two items that were in progress that have not been finalized: the negotiation of the transfer of the Arctic A airports program from the federal government and the review of the approach to fighting fires, partially in response to the Standing Committee on Finance's direction to provide a more accurate estimate for fire suppression expenditures.

Mr. Chairman, both items have now been finalized. Presentations on the results of the Arctic A airports transfer negotiations and the program changes to the forest management program have been provided to the Standing Committee on Finance.

Mr. Chairman, these supplementary funding requirements will not result in a worsening of the forecast 1995-96 deficit. The additional supplementary appropriations required for the Arctic A airports transfer will be financed through funding transferred from the Government of Canada through the formula financing agreement while the additional supplementary appropriations for the changes to the forest management program will be financed from established supplementary funding reserves.

At the appropriate time, Mr. Chairman, I am prepared to make a motion to amend the supplementary appropriation bill to include $24,617,700 for the transfer of the Arctic A airports program from the federal government and $7.3 million for the forest management program changes.

Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time I would like to request that staff join me at the witness table. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Would the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance who reviewed the bill make comments to the bill? Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Finance reviewed Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96, at its meetings on June 7, 8, 13, 14 and 19, 1995. The chairman of the Financial Management Board and his staff were available to answer questions at the June 7, 8, 14 and 19, 1995 meetings.

Mr. Chairman, the original bill represents an additional appropriation request of almost $32 million for the 1995-96 fiscal year. As well, we understand that the amendments to be brought in by the Minister of Finance relating to the transfer of Arctic A airports and the program changes to forest fire management will bring the total to almost $64 million. This would bring the total voted appropriations for the fiscal year 1995-96 to just over $1.28 billion.

As has been the practice, I will speak to the major issues of this supplementary appropriation. Members of the committee may have additional comments when we proceed to discussion on the detail of the bill.

The Minister of Finance has already outlined the significant highlights of this appropriation. Committee Members noted the adjustments made to fund the building and learning strategy and the Northwest Territories' share of the Canada/NWT infrastructure program.

Committee Members also noted the transfers relating to the Community Transfer Initiative (CTI). The transfers implementing the block funding approach for Tuktoyaktuk's CTI funding, along with new arrangements recently announced for implementing CTI in the Baffin region, are a further response to recommendations of the Standing Committee on Finance, and the committee appreciates the efforts of the government in implementing its recommendations.

The transfer of the social assistance program from the Department of Health and Social Services to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment was already debated in this House when the 1995-96 budget was introduced and passed. Some funding transfers in this supplementary appropriation merely give effect to this transfer of responsibilities. Similarly, transfers giving effect to the merger of the NWT Science Institute with both Aurora College and Nunavut Arctic College have also been the subject of previous debate.

The establishment of a new Personnel Secretariat in the Department of the Executive, replacing the Department of Personnel, is a new initiative by the government. This change does not alter total government spending, but it does reflect a further consolidation of tasks in the Executive.

Regarding the amendments reflecting program changes to forest fire management and the transfer of Arctic A airports, the Minister of Finance briefed the Standing Committee on Finance about these issues on June 14th.

Committee Members appreciate the government's response to SCOF's recommendation that fire suppression expenditures be more accurately reflected in the budget. The standing committee is also looking forward to the results of the other initiatives planned by the government to improve the handling of the difficult task of forest fire suppression and prevention. While protecting lives is essential, as is teaching northerners to prevent unnatural fires, it is important that we balance the protection of property with the need for the forest to be renewed through fire.

The Minister of Finance, along with the Minister of Transportation, has kept the Standing Committee on Finance well informed over the last couple of years on the negotiations to transfer the responsibility for the largest airports in the Arctic to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Committee Members were shown the funding and personnel figures related to the transfer, and agree that this funding should be included in this bill. The standing committee agrees that transferring responsibility for these important airports will be a benefit to the Northwest Territories.

In our discussions in the Standing Committee on Finance, two of the most significant issues are the introduction of what is essentially the 1995-96 capital budget for the Department of Justice and the large amount of capital funding carried over from the 1994-95 fiscal year. Over $21 million in capital funding to replace funds lapsed in 1994-95 is included in this supplementary appropriation. The entire capital planning process has been the subject of debate in the standing committee. Committee Members are concerned at the growth in the number of capital projects being delayed and carried over to future fiscal years. The amount being carried over from 1994-95 in this supplementary appropriation represents almost 12 per cent of the total 1994-95 capital estimates.

While some delays are inevitable, given the difficult nature of planning and coordinating capital projects in the north, this amount of carried-over funding indicates serious problems in the capital planning process. The standing committee has been discussing this issue with the Minister of Finance and we trust that the Minister and his capable staff will be able to address this problem by introducing improvements to the capital process in time for the 1996-97 fiscal year. It would not be appropriate for this Assembly and this government to leave this problem unaddressed for the next Assembly to deal with.

For the Department of Justice, $2 million in capital funding is included in this appropriation. When the standing committee reviewed the 1995-96 capital budget in September and October of last year, one of the recommendations was "that the capital budget of the Department of Justice be presented to the House as part of consideration of the overall 1995-96 capital estimates." It is now eight months later and we are only now seeing the department's plans for capital spending for this fiscal year. The standing committee strongly recommends that the department ensure that this does not happen again.

Of the $2 million identified for the department, the committee noted, with approval, the $150,000 for providing wilderness camp contributions, the $50,000 provided to plan for a women's correctional facility in Nunavut, and the $1.3 million allocated for community correctional centres and camps. These directly address recommendations made by the standing committee, and committee Members appreciate these recommendations being included in the department's capital plans. However the fourth item, $500,000 for a proposed youth treatment centre in lnuvik, raised some concerns. In the review of the 1995-96 capital budget, the standing committee recommended "that the Department of Justice include a facility for violent young offenders in its five-year capital plan." Some time after that, before the review of the main estimates, an official with the department announced that such a new facility would be built in Inuvik. Committee Members were concerned, not only with the manner in which the facility was announced, but also with the apparent haste and lack of planning evident in the annoucement. well informed over the last couple of years on the negotiations To address the standing committee's concerns, the Minister of Justice appeared before the standing committee on June 14th. The Minister explained that the planned facility was not directed specifically at violent young offenders. The department left that they should focus on treatment and support programs for youth, including young offenders and that this treatment centre would reflect that focus.

Committee Members acknowledge the high rate of incarceration for both adults and young offenders in the lnuvik region, and appreciate that a facility may be needed in lnuvik. Members of the standing committee are still concerned that this new facility may be no different from the three existing secure custody facilities in Hay River, Fort Smith and lqaluit. Young offenders sentenced to these facilities seem to have a high rate of re-offending. Committee Members do not want to see further facilities built without careful consideration by the department as to how to address the problem. The design of the program should come well before the design of the physical facility. In fact, program design should also be emphasized for open custody young offender facilities run by contractors.

Committee Members are still concerned that the Department of Justice does not appear to have any concrete plans for dealing with the most violent of young offenders. This issue was the subject of an earlier recommendation of the standing committee, and should be addressed quickly.

That concludes my remarks on Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. At this point, would the Minister like to invite witnesses in to assist him with this matter? Mr. Minister.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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John Pollard Hay River

If I might, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree?

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister, you may take the witness table and the Sergeant-at-Arms will assist your witnesses.

Good afternoon, Mr. Minister. For the record, would you introduce your witnesses please.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on my right is Mr. Lew Voytilla who has had a haircut. He's altogether better looking.

---Laughter

Mr. Chairman, I have with me Mr. Rob Taggart from the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Thank you.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, Mr. Taggart. General comments. Does the committee agree, then, that we go into the Supplementary Appropriation booklet?

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Executive

Executive Council Secretariat

It's the white booklet and we're on page 6. Executive, Executive Council Secretariat, operations and maintenance, not previously authorized, $50,000.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Financial Management Board Secretariat

Directorate

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Financial Management Board Secretariat, directorate, not previously authorized, $17,500.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Human Resource Management

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Human resource management, not previously authorized, $674,000.

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Audit And Evaluation

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Audit and evaluation, not previously authorized, negative $66,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed Department Of Executive

Personnel Secretariat

Bill 34: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed