Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Mr. Speaker, over the past two years, representatives from our government have travelled regularly to Europe to alert the European community of the potential impacts on our wild fur industry of a proposed regulation. Last year, our efforts were successful in delaying the implementation of the regulation for one year. Since then, we have carefully monitored activity in the European Parliament and the European Commission, which is responsible for determining how the regulation will be implemented. We have also taken every opportunity to push the Government of Canada into becoming actively involved in resolving our concerns over this regulation.

I can now report that our vigilance has resulted in the following actions by Canada:

1. In March, the Prime Minister of Canada, after his meeting with the President of the United States, advised the Premier of renewed commitment by the US to deal with this issue and to coordinate efforts to achieve shared goals;

2. In May, the Minister of International Trade, after his meetings with his counterparts in the United States and the European Commission, advised the Premier of the important role that our government has been playing and of the potential for a negotiated solution involving Canada, the United States, Russia and the European community to resolve our outstanding concerns. If the European Commission does not accept the joint Canadian/US proposal, the Honourable Roy MacLaren has advised the Premier that Canada will take steps to protect the fur industry by initiating the dispute settlement process of the World Trade Organization;

3. In May, the Canadian Council of Environment Ministers unanimously agreed that a strong message needed to be sent to Europe immediately. Following this, the Minister for Environment Canada indicated she would contact all the European Environment Ministers to advance Canada's position; and,

4. In mid-June, the leaders of the G-7 countries will meet in Halifax and the European fur import regulation will be discussed. The Premier has written to the Prime Minister that it is important to gain the support of the other G-7 countries if we are to resolve our concerns.

The four national aboriginal organizations have also become involved and are sending representatives to Europe over the next four weeks who will make presentations and hold seminars in different countries.

Over the next few weeks, we will learn of the European community's reaction to these actions. Since only a few months are left, it is very important that any action our government takes is carefully planned to have the maximum effect. This is why I decided not to return to Europe at this time. I still believe that our government has a role to play, but that role will depend on the European community's response to the Canadian/US proposal for a negotiated solution.

On June 2nd, I wrote to both the Minister of Environment Canada and the Minister of International Trade advising them of the few months left for action, urging them to meet with their European counterparts and offering assistance from our government. In early July, I will be host to seven members of the European Parliament, who are travelling to Canada to learn about fur and forest management. I will also remain in contact with the federal Ministers to review Canada's plans for action.

Mr. Speaker, it is critical for us to continue to work together with each other, the federal government and other governments. This has been the key to our past success. For this, I would like to thank the ordinary Members for their interest, support and involvement; in particular, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Lewis, and Mr. Whitford, who have taken the time to participate in meetings with the Europeans.

I would like to assure everyone that we will do everything in our power to ensure that the wild fur trade continues and flourishes. We have some very hard work ahead of us yet and, as events unfold, I will keep the Legislative Assembly informed. Mutna, qujannamiik, mahsi.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd.

expensive in this area. These supplements and milk products are very important for proper nourishment, for small children in particular.

I would urge the government look into the high cost of these products, especially in the smaller communities where it is difficult to obtain these everyday necessities. I would urge the government to take a better look at this problem because these products are essential, especially 9 a mother, for one reason or another, is unable to breast-feed her child. We want more assistance with this problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak today about the zero tolerance declaration adopted by this House a little more than a year ago. I have the feeling that there is a lack of understanding about the principle of zero tolerance, particularly in Nunavut. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, some clarification is needed to remind our constituents and ourselves just what the focus of this philosophy is.

In February 1994, we adopted the declaration of zero tolerance for violence that occurs in the lives of too many northerners. Family violence, particularly spousal and child abuse, can be both physical and psychological and it leaves a victim scarred both physically and emotionally. It is sad that much of the time, we only hear about the violence in the homes in our community when something else occurs that brings it to our attention. Often that something else has to do with alcohol. Then the use or abuse of alcohol is mistakenly seen as the cause of violence, rather than a symptom of deeper sickness. In many cases, we are shocked to discover that the abuse has been going on for years.

Mr. Speaker, our greatest enemy in the fight against family Violence is silence. In order to stop the cycle of violence, existing attitudes must change. I quote from the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi when he addressed this issue on February 10, 1994: 'The elimination of family violence requires a wide range of actions but, at the end of the day, any family violence requires changing our attitudes which allow it to continue. We must challenge our old attitudes, values and behaviours today."

As the chosen representatives of our people, Members of the Assembly decided to adopt the declaration of zero tolerance for violence and encouraged other organizations and leaders in all communities to adopt similar declarations. It is true, Mr. Speaker, that we have many problems in the north today, but none are more damaging than violence and abuse in the home. Adopting and living up to the principle of zero tolerance for violence in our lives is a crucial first step but it is said, Mr. Speaker, that the longest journey begins with a single step.

Later this session, another step may be taken on this journey as Members debate a bill that will put in legislation what has, until now, been a parliamentary convention: that violent offences will result in expulsion from this Assembly. Whether the bill passes or not...

Ms. Mike, your time is up. Ms. Mike.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Member for Baffin Central is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and colleagues. Whether the bill passes or not, we must keep in mind that each step on this journey brings us all closer to making our homes the safe havens they are meant to be, and reminds us that in our families we find sanctuary. Qujannamiik.

--- Applause

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to extend my congratulations to 10 members of the first community-based grade 10 high school program to graduate from Repulse Bay.

I am sure that without this program, many students would have chosen not to leave the community to continue their education. With the addition of grade 11 this fall, and grade 12 in the fall of 1996, these students will now be able to stay in their home community with their families and friends, to complete their high school education.

Mr. Speaker, my thanks and congratulations goes out to the staff of Tusarvik School for their hard work and dedication to the students of this community. Even with the limited space in their school, they are still able to provide a quality education to the students. However, the problem of overcrowding in Tusarvik School is beginning to have a negative impact on both staff and students. Due to the lack of space in the school, they were forced to use the library as a classroom and a computer lab. Next year will be even worse with the addition of grade 11. Both grades 10 and 11 will have to share the library space. To compound the problem even further, 22 new kindergarten students will be enroling in the fall of 1995.

Mr. Speaker, this is why the residents of Repulse Bay are asking to have the expansion of Tusarvik School identified in the government's five-year capital plan moved from 1998-99 to the 1996-97 fiscal year. It is my hope that the government will take action on this matter so that the education being provided to the students of this community will not be compromised in any way.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make this statement and I thank you, Mr. Speaker. The students who graduated in Repulse were the first in that community once higher grade levels were introduced within those communities. Had they not attended school within their home community, I doubt that they would have completed grade 10 or the higher levels. With the introduction of grade 11 within those communities, and eventually grade 12 in 1996, this is joyous to see. It's good that young people will be able to stay within their own communities to be amongst their friends and their own people and complete their education at higher levels.

Mr. Speaker, I'm very grateful and I'm very proud of those people who were involved in teaching these students.

--- Applause

Are you finished? Mrs. Thompson, are you seeking unanimous consent to conclude your statement, or are you finished? You're finished?

(Microphone turned off)

I guess it's difficult for the technician to see you to be able to ... I ask Members, just in case the technician isn't able to see you, to put on your mike. The Member for Aivilik is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mrs. Thompson.

(Translation) I was a little bit confused. Please accept my apologies.

As I was stating, in Repulse Bay there is a shortage of space to ensure adequate education. While we're proud of the work that has been done to implement higher grades, the space in the school is still very limited so they're using their library as a classroom and a computer lab. Next year with the addition of grade 11, both grades 10 and 11 will have to share the same library space. While that is a problem, they're expecting 22 new enrolments of kindergarten students in 1995.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Repulse Bay are requesting an expansion of the school, and that a new capital plan be forwarded from the fiscal year 1998-99 to the fiscal year 1996-97. It is my hope that the government will take action on this matter so that education will be adequately presented. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge some of the activities of the Inuvik branch of the Canadian Mental Health Association. On May 30th, the Canadian Mental Health Association of Inuvik held their annual general meeting. The meeting was held in their new offices, which are located in, one of the old government row houses. It was a real cooperative effort to get this row house ready for this event. The Department of Health and Social Services, Department of Public Works and the regional director, Roger Connelly all worked hard to see that this building was eventually turned over to the Canadian Mental Health Association. I would like to thank the departments and the government for facilitating this transfer.

When this transfer was done, then the community organizations took over. Volunteers, staff, clients and board members all worked together to complete the necessary renovations. At the annual general meeting there were approximately 40 community members who attended. They elected a new board

of directors, had a feast prepared by the staff and the women of the Inuvik Transition House. At this meeting, Mr. Speaker, Clayton Gordon, the secretary-treasurer of the Inuvialuit Community Corporation, presented a cheque for $9,000 to go towards helping children who are affected by sexual abuse.

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Mental Health Association is a real grass-roots program that belongs to the people. This is reflected throughout our office with people stopping by with donations or just to meet and have coffee. The support of the community continues to grow, and the donation of $9,000 is just one indication of this. This organization is also an active participant on Inuvik's Interagency Committee.

I would like to congratulate the past boards of directors, welcome the new board of directors, and thank the administrators and staff of CMHA, and also thank the Inuvialuit Community Corporation for their donation and encourage the Canadian Mental Health Association to continue their good work in Inuvik and in the region. Mahsi.

--- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will speak to an item that has been brought to my attention on a number of occasions. Mr. Speaker, I want to speak today on the directive of the NWT Housing Corporation that was issued on April 5, 1995. I'm somewhat concerned with the provision regarding the required use of local accommodation by contractors.

Under the northern preference policy of this government, we try to do things in a way that supports local economies and businesses. The new Housing Corporation directive seems to contradict this objective. What the directive says, Mr. Speaker, is the business contracting with the Housing Corporation must use local commercial room and board facilities when they are working in communities. Mr. Speaker, the concern I have is in defining what constitutes a commercial room and board facility.

The directive specifically excludes bed and breakfast facilities. This does not make a lot of sense to me, Mr. Speaker. Bed and breakfasts are operated by local people trying to make a living by providing a service which, in many communities, is a welcome addition considering the lack of larger community establishments.

Mr. Speaker, I am just not sure why bed and breakfast facilities are not considered to be eligible under the Housing Corporation directive, and I will be following up on this issue with the Minister during question period at the appropriate time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I expressed my concerns about the safety of our current forest fire operation in relation to the DC-4s. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House, the Minister responsible for fire management indicated that all the Bird Dog officers were working or in orientation. I'm not disputing that fact, Mr. Speaker; in fact, that was true. However, they were working with the CL-215s, not with the DC-4s. These officers continue to question the safety of the tankers, of the DC-4s, and of the land-based program.

Apparently, there is one Bird Dog pilot without any experience with fires, and one experienced tanker captain. The crews are still short a Bird Dog pilot and a tanker pilot with experience. At first, Mr. Speaker, it sounds positive that there are two experienced pilots; however, as an example, the tanker pilot's experience is 392 hours as co-pilot, not the 500 hours called for in the request for proposal. As well, because the hours were as co-pilot, he does not have the direct experience with how to make the attack. In the thick of things, it is the pilot, pot the co-pilot, who pulls the trigger to drop the retardant or the mixtures. It is the pilot who will drop the substance where it belongs; or misses the target and loses valuable time; or worse, hits crews working on the ground.

Mr. Speaker, firefighting is how these Bird Dog officers make their living. The fact that they refuse to work with the DC-4s and, given no alternative, would rather lose their job, tells me that the safety concerns have still not been met. As we hear of more fires like the one in Fort Norman, we will need our full fire suppression team. I hope the Minister will take these comments seriously and ensure the Bird Dog officers' concerns are addressed soon.

Mr. Speaker, the Bird Dog officers believe that the situation is an accident waiting for a place to happen. It is up to the Minster and this government to make sure that this does not happen. Thank you.

--- Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was very happy to be part of the effort by this government to lobby on behalf of the fur industry in April. I've been interested in the fur issue since 1987 when we first began to become very heavily involved in what was, for us, a major issue.

Since April, Mr. Speaker, I undertook, in cooperation with Mr. Antoine and the Department of Renewable Resources, to inform many of our students about the importance of this issue in Europe. We learned when we were there that the big impact that was taking place on European parliamentarians was the fact they got many letters from animal rights activists; many of them very radical, and they seemed to have a tremendous impact. So this afternoon, there will be a campaign begun in

the Northwest Territories where students, in fact, will look through a large package of information about the fur industry and will be writing to European parliamentarians giving another point of view about how important the fur industry was in the whole establishment of this great country of ours. It was the basis of our economy for so long. It matters an awful lot psychologically and culturally to the people of the Northwest Territories. They will, in fact, begin writing letters to these people to give them a different perspective. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I described my experience in my constituency with the federal firearms control task force as one of the most cynical efforts at manipulation I've ever seen in all my years of service as an MLA. Today I would like to elaborate on why I would use such strong language.

Most people who communicate across a language and cultural barrier understand that special sensitivity is required. It's not enough to engage the services of an interpreter; one must speak in language the interpreter can understand, especially when describing complex legislation.

The Members of the federal firearms task force who came to my community could not speak plain English. I wrote down a typical, painful example. The Ottawa visitors were asked by my constituents why experienced hunters should have to take gun safety courses. The Ottawa bureaucrats, in reply, tried to ask my constituents whether they could suggest another way to recognize the skills of experienced hunters other than by making them take a course. Here is how the bureaucrat asked the question of a unilingual member of the Amarok HTA, "is there a non-invasive way of validating their competence?". Mr. Speaker, this is not plain language. This is bureaucratic gobbledegook.

Unless issues like compulsory registration, lending and licence requirements are dealt with, Bill C-68 is quite clearly a substantial infringement of the aboriginal right to hunt. The Supreme Court of Canada has clearly ruled in the Sparrow case that the rights of aboriginal peoples in Canada cannot be infringed by a government. In the rare case where infringement of an aboriginal right may be justified, the court said that there must first be meaningful consultation with the aboriginal people involved.

I want to say as clearly as possible to the federal Justice Minister Allan Rock and to any judge who in future may be asked to consider this issue, that I believe the records of this Assembly, statements of many of my colleagues about the lack of notice, the rushed timetable, the poor presentation and communication, clearly establishes that on Bill C-68 my constituents have not been meaningfully consulted by the federal government. I say they haven't been consulted at all. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear! Hear!

--- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Zoe.

Welcome to the Assembly. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, some of you may not be aware of the efforts of a modest man who quietly monitors our operations in the interests of organized labour in the public sector in the Northwest Territories. He has very humbly moved his seat so he's not quite as visible to me as usual. But he's still here today, I believe, hiding: Mr. Ben MacDonald of the Union of Northern Workers. Thank you.

--- Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, your point of privilege.

Point Of Privilege

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, a point of privilege. Pursuant to Rule 21, with your permission, I would like to raise a point of privilege to clarify a matter that was reported on the 7:30 am and 8:30 am newscasts on CBC Mackenzie. Mr. Speaker, yesterday in committee of the whole, I introduced a motion that, if passed, would recommend that a plebiscite question be put to the people of the Northwest Territories on the matter of raising the legal drinking age from 19 to 21 years.

I am pleased that CBC chose to air a report on this important matter. However, in the course of the report, it was stated that I, as a Member for Thebacha, am in favour of raising the drinking age. I want to emphasize, Mr. Speaker, that at no point during yesterday's debate did I indicate that this was my position. Actually, Mr. Speaker, I realize that there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides of the question. As yet, I have not stated my own position until I hear more about what my constituents think.

What I was trying to do was to provide a process through which this whole matter could be taken to the people. I know that there are differing Views on this issue in communities all across the Northwest Territories. I chaired a public meeting in Fort Smith last fall where opinion was mixed on whether the legal drinking age should be raised. I know that the Standing Committee on Legislation heard differing positions on the question, even though the committee report indicates that no witnesses supported the idea. I know this because a number of students travelled from my community and told the committee that they thought the drinking age should be raised. The Dene Nation, as well, passed a resolution at it's national assembly in support of 21 years old as the drinking age.

Mr. Speaker, these things show that there are conflicting opinions on the subject and I would like to see people given an opportunity to vote openly and fairly. At this time, I'm taking no position and I've taken no position on whether the eligibility age should be raised. But I do believe the matter should be left in the hands of the people of the Northwest Territories to tell us what they think. I want to clarify my position on that for the record, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the media has a responsibility to report accurate comments and proceedings of this Assembly, as their interpretations and reporting are of importance with regard to informing the public about what is happening in this Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to advise the House on this issue. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker. Currently, there is a lot of work and discussions about division of the Northwest Territories. Of major concern to all governments involved is the cost of division and the implications to this government. It has always been my understanding that the federal government would pay for any incremental costs incurred for division, so it would be nice to get some clarification on this issue. I would like to ask the Premier, is it still the understanding between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government that the federal government would pay for any incremental costs incurred in division?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, although there are varying assessments about what that cost is and will be, it is still the position and understanding of Northwest Territories Government that the federal government will bear the incremental coats for division. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. What work is being done currently to try to modify the amount of incremental costs that will occur because of division?

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, there has been at least three studies done to evaluate the possible incremental costs of division. However, the actual costs are difficult to determine because, at this time, the structure of government has not been determined. On behalf of all the residents of the Northwest Territories, in trying to make sure that the programs and services continue and people receive those programs, the Government of the Northwest Territories, on a continuous basis, continues to try to make sure that the federal government keeps at the top of their list of priorities their obligations for funding for incremental costs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

I would like to ask the Premier, then, who is involved in these discussions and work with the federal government?

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for your tolerance. With regard to the set-up of the structure of government, it's the responsibility of the Nunavut Implementation Commission to set up the structure and advocate the placement of certain areas of administrative responsibility and identify needs. This government has an internal joint committee that continues to track and work with NIC to make sure we're working out those particular expenses and planned timetable so we can make sure that the federal government is also involved in setting those timetables. Through my office, we're continually in contact with the federal government to keep track of this working relationship.

It may seem a bit skewed bemuse of the number of people who are involved; however, my office is trying very hard to make sure we're tracking all the decisions that are being made. We are trying to be involved, informative and provide the necessary information and research to determine the possible implementation costs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker. It has always been my understanding that with division there are going to be two new territories, one in the east and one in the west. The aboriginal leaders, especially in the west are very concerned about the impacts, not only on the costs in the creation of a new western territory but as they relate to self-government and treaty negotiations. So, I would like to ask the Premier, when will the aboriginal leaders from the west be asked to become involved in working out the costs of division?

Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, the process for determining some of the issues, such as the Nunavut Implementation Commission is doing, hopefully will be through the CDSC process, where the groups of the west have to determine, with the Members of this Legislative Assembly, the types of structures being advocated. That, too, can be put into the mix of needs and requirements for setting up the second territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can be corrected if I'm directing my question to the wrong Minister. I would like to direct a question about staff

housing for GNWT employees to the Minister of Personnel. You can redirect my question if I have the wrong Minister.

As we know, Mr. Speaker, there are rental increases for GNWT staff housing. In Cape Dorset, especially, there have been a lot of concerns regarding the level of quality of these staff houses. When they were being built, I lived in Cape Dorset. Mr. Speaker, since rent increases have been a continue[ problem for staff, we are concerned about the quality of houses and staff having to pay a high rent for houses which are run down and not in good shape. Mr. Speaker, has consideration been given for staff houses to be renovated, to bring them on par with what people are paying? People have been paying high rents for these very old, run-down houses. Has there been any consideration given to renovating these houses so that people get what they are paying for? Is there anything in the plans, Mr. Speaker, for these houses to be inspected, because there are also safety concerns. Is there anything in the plans regarding this, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Minister responsible for Government Services and Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some of the staff housing units in the communities do need some repair work. I would be quite happy to work with the Member and the community to see what we can accomplish in repairing those units as soon as possible. But, our intention for those units we have for staff is to bring them up to good conditions to live in. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for that response. It has been expected, especially when the rent was increased, that these houses would be renovated. Can we say that the staff can expect to have their houses renovated, as nothing has been done to date. How soon can we work together to start alleviating this problem? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will direct the staff to go into his community to assess how much repair work has to be done to those units and work that out with people living in those units, as well as the community, to try to solve the problem as soon as possible. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Thompson.

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. Today I spoke about the extreme overcrowding in the school of Repulse Bay, which is going to be much worse next year. Is the Minister aware of the severe overcrowding in Tusarvik School of Repulse Bay?

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can advise the honourable Member that I have been advised about the matter relating to student enrolment and the growth which, in fact, far exceeds what our initial assessments were. I have been advised on a number of occasions by the community, particularly by the mayor, Donat Milortok and, prior to her election, by Mr. Todd. So, I am aware of the situation.

Supplementary, Mrs. Thompson.

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Minister. My constituents have asked that the planned expansion be advanced to the 1996-97 fiscal year. Is the Minister prepared to take action on this request?

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Prior to directly responding, I just want to advise the public, through you Mr. Speaker, that the honourable Member has also raised this particular matter with me. I want to indicate to the honourable Member, Mr. Speaker, that we have communicated by written letter to the community, advising them that we are prepared to review the matter seriously, with the view of considering the overcrowding and the growth of enrolments of students, but we would have to do it in conjunction with the Keewatin Divisional Board of Education, the Member and the community. Certainly in that context, if we see the project and the concern being raised as a legitimate one, I would be prepared, after consideration and consultations, to consider that project as being necessary for that community.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the concern of the honourable Member and I note the comments that have been made. Just to advise the honourable Member, it's certainly our intention to try to ensure that the best information be made available to employers when any individual has graduated from our high schools. I'll take note of the honourable Member's suggestion, however, in saying that, I also want to advise the honourable Member -and he's noted it -- that we will have developed, in conjunction with students and parents, beginning this particular year, the computer program that would identify the student information of all the subjects including career program and plans for which the student has been educated. I note the concern and, certainly, without much more comment, Mr. Speaker, I will take note of the concern and the suggestion made by the honourable Member.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure that we necessarily need to conduct a survey, we may already have information on file. Again, I'll note the concern of the honourable Member, and whatever is most appropriate in terms of consulting employers I will certainly try to ensure that we have that kind of information on file. If it requires us to do a survey, then obviously we'll be able to consider that.

I must also advise the honourable Member, I believe our labour force survey gives us a great deal of that information, and as a result of that, we're also highlighting some of the employment requirements, trade requirements and skill requirements that are presently required by employees in the Northwest Territories. But I will take note of the suggestion.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Subsequent to my Members statement regarding the use of commercial room and board, I would like to direct my question to the honourable Minister of the Housing Corporation. On the outset, Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend the honourable Minister that there are many positive things that have come out of this business incentive policy. That should be noted publicly in the House.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the honourable Minister is, why are bed and breakfasts not considered to be eligible under the Housing Corporation directive.

Minister responsible for housing, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The intent of the department's commercial room and board directive is to support the economic viability of commercial establishments -that is, hotels or motels in the communities -- by requiring all non-local contractors to use these business and the use of the facilities. In the past, contractors from outside the communities have, from time to time, set up bunk houses or bought older units and called them a bed and breakfast to got around our policy. So we've tightened up our policy to close this leakage. We've also issued a directive saying that contractors must stay in hotels.

The bed and breakfast facilities in these communities are licensed by Economic Development. They are licensed as a bed and breakfast for a tourism home. They are basically for one-night stays. It's defined as a private home or dwelling in which a room or rooms are offered for rent to the travelling or vacationing public. It anybody wants to get a hotel licence, then we would be able to assist them with the Economic Development people in order to get a hotel licence. But a hotel and a motel costs a lot of money to invest in that, whereas a bed and breakfast takes a small amount of money to invest. What we're trying to do is make sure that the actual hotels and motels in the communities become economically viable. That is why the directive was issued. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for fire suppression. Mr. Speaker, no doubt, we're concerned about the situation with regard to the forest fires. Can the Minister tell this House what resources are being used to fight the fires, particularly in the area of Fort Norman?

Minister responsible for the forest fire management program, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last night, when the forest fire was reported, we immediately responded with ground crews and helicopters to get them in the area. We had approximately three crews, around 17 men on that fire on the west flank of it to try to redirect it away from the community of Fort Norman. We've also sent in four CL-215s. I believe by now, it's 2:35, the DC-4s would have left Hay River for Norman Wells. We're also sending in more medium and light helicopters. We're sending in relief crews to relieve the firefighters who have fought fire there all night.

Just previous to walking in the House, I talked to our man in charge in Norman Wells. They're doing everything possible to try to redirect this fire. We had no choice but to pull our firefighters off because the wind had changed. The fire is approximately 4.5 kilometres away from the community of Fort Norman. When the wind changed, we had approximately a 10 kilometre wind. What happened was the smoke came in on the side of the fire that we were fighting, so our visibility for our men was reduced. For safety reasons, we pulled the men off the fire because we may have had a hard time to pick them up with the helicopters due to the smoke.

At the present, they are also doing back burning from Fort Norman to try to create a buffer zone to save the community. All people have been evacuated, except for approximately 30, to Norman Wells. So we are sending in more equipment and trying our best to contain that fire. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister, are the DCAs being used to fight these fires in Fort Norman? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There were two CL-215s that were sent in earlier today and two more followed it. The DC-4s are going in there, and if we have to use all those aircraft, we are going to use every one of them, with or without Bird Dog officers. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That leads to my next question. Can the Minister indicate to the House the status of the Bird Dog officers with respect to assisting the DC-4s? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As far as I understand, all the flight crews of the DCAs are qualified as far as we are concerned to operate those aircraft and fight fire. We have them taking extra precautions because of the safety issue raised about the Bird Dog officers to make them comfortable. I believe that process is to be completed today. So, hopefully, these Bird Dog officers will accompany the DC4s and the Bird Dog planes into Norman Wells. Whether or not they are, I do not know. Once I find that information out, I will be happy to relay that information to the Member. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. I know the Minister has encouraged meetings to take place with aboriginal leaders to discuss their position on the northern accord, and I believe the Minister participated in those meetings this morning. I would like to ask the Minister, how are things going. Thank you.

--- Laughter

The Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Mr. Todd.

Everything is fine, Mr. Speaker.

When you are not involved, it's wonderful.

Mr. Speaker, I did meet with the aboriginal groups at 10:30 this morning on the issue of trying to reach an arrangement with them so that we can jointly move forward to the federal government to quickly transfer the responsibility for minerals, oil and gas to this government.

There was some concern raised by a number of the groups about a much clearer definition of self-government, and Mr. Kakfwi has addressed that with the groups and will address it again tomorrow. I have indicated to them that, from my perspective anyway, there has to be some closure to the discussion. At some point, we have to get on with the negotiations.

The majority of the groups in the room have agreed to continue to work on Tuesday, what we call the working group, to see if an accommodation can be made in terms of some of the wording and some of the changes they want for the draft accord that was put before them on April 7th. I am optimistic that, while we may not have everyone at that table, we will have some, and I have indicated to them that an arrangement has to be made by June 30th. There is no further extension beyond June 30th. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have question for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Earlier this year, the Inuvik Regional Health Board put out advertisements looking for a company or someone to provide orthodontic services to the Inuvik region. I understand that the health board has completed the task of doing the tendering, reviewing, choosing a contract and they've prepared the necessary equipment lists and are getting quotas on these lists. Apparently, they are now waiting for formal approval from the department to proceed. Each day that we wait, it costs us more money because there are between 45 and 60 people involved each month who are transported out for orthodontic services. So I would like to ask the Minister what the status is of this issue so that orthodontic services can be provided by the Inuvik Regional Health Board.

The Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, the information that I have here in terms of the status of the Inuvik Regional Health Board's proposal call for orthodontic services is that they have made their selection and have identified who they will be awarding the contract to.

However, the honourable Member is correct in saying that they are presently awaiting the authorization to purchase the equipment that would be necessary to have the orthodontist do the work out of the Inuvik Regional Hospital. Mr. Speaker, that is in the process and, hopefully, that will be resolved very shortly.

As Minister responsible, I perhaps slowed the process down a bit because I wanted to make sure that was the best possible deal that we could get given that there was another service available for dental care in Inuvik. So, I am now satisfied that the best choice was made and will move as quickly as possible to get the necessary paperwork to have the authorization completed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have another question for the Minister responsible for fire suppression. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister about standards used in the request for proposals. The Minister referred to Transport Canada's basic standards for fixed-wing aircraft. He further stated that any other standards such as the number of hours required and the experience of pilots are set by the senior management of this government. The request for proposals indicated specific standards, presumably those which the senior management felt were necessary to do the job. Can the Minister explain what changed, in between when the request for proposals was prepared and when the contract was awarded, to allow those standards to be relaxed in terms of pilots' experience? Thank you.

The Minister responsible for forest fire management, Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A request for proposals is exactly that. It is a request for proposals to northern companies to offer up their services. There are certain standards in the request for proposal that are in there bemuse of MOT and licences that are required that have to be adhered to. There are other standards we would like to see but we would accept other qualifications and give us your proposal.

That's the whole idea. For example, maybe some pilots did not have 20 years' fire experience, but what Members must understand is that these standards have been set over a period of 20 years and they are set from a ratchet effect. For example, maybe you only needed two hours' firefighting experience 20 years ago, but as Con Air got 20 hours then it moved up. Every time the past contractor got the hours that were needed, then all of a sudden the hours moved up, and we call that a "ratchet effect." So, for example, if you were to supply a DC-6 you would have to supply it with only a certain size cargo door. Who paid for that? We did. It cost $1 million. Now, it is part of the standard so how can other people compete? We have to change that, we have to change the attitude of how we tendered and we have to change it so it benefits northern people. That's what happens. This contract benefits northern people.

For example, maybe a pilot didn't have 10,000 hours of firefighting experience, but I know about the pilots in command of DC aircraft and land-based air tankers. One has 16,000 hours of experience, 15,500 hours in the Canadian army. Another pilot in command has 12,300 hours of flying experience and seven years of fire suppression with a DC-6 in NWT, Alberta, Saskatchewan and BC. That's acceptable to us, there's no problem. A pilot who is second in command has 2,500 hours with a DC-4 and three years in the NWT. He can haul men and equipment for forestry each summer. He's also the company's safety officer. He's acceptable to us.

Another pilot who is second in command has three years in the NWT, has 2,100 hours flying experience in a DC-4, and has hauled men and equipment for forestry for three summers as well. Then we have reserve pilots for these aircraft with 18,000 hours; 23,000 hours; 15,000 hours; 3,000 hours in a Bird Dog aircraft; 30 years in the NWT. All these things are acceptable to us as a government for awarding this contract to a northern company. I can go on and on about these peoples' experience. As far as I'm concerned, they're experienced, they meet the standards that we have mutually agreed to, and we are going to fight fires with them this summer. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the Minister can go on and on and on about all the experience, but I think the Minister has missed my point, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when this government develops a request for proposal, they develop certain standards to be adhered to in that proposal call. That's how they judge whether a proposal should be granted. Transport Canada requirements are totally different than the standards set by the senior management of this government. The standards of the senior management of this government are basically set because they want to know what they want to use with regard to speciality aviation.

Therefore, in as much as a pilot has thousands of hours of experience flying people, that is a totally different experience from going in to attack a fire where the conditions are totally different. Therefore, I'll ask the Minister again, can he explain what changed in the process, between the request for proposals when it was prepared and the contract which was awarded, which allowed those standards to be relaxed? What changed in the process? Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like I have said many times, that is the process for requests for proposals. You go out with a request for proposals and you ask people to propose to you what they will offer for services. That's what was done. We evaluated it, and that is the job of the senior management committee that was in place. They evaluated that, we saw where we got the best bang for our dollar and we saved $4.8 million over five years. We awarded it to Buffalo Airways and they'll be out fighting fires.

I take the safety concerns of Bird Dog officers very seriously. We are addressing them and, hopefully, they will be addressed today. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, what are Transport Canada's requirements. Thank you.

Mr. Morin.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will supply that to the Member. She asked for that information through a written question, so that information is coming. I don't have that at my fingertips. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I asked the Minister for a copy of the request for proposals, which I still have not received. However, I do know that when they ask for air crews for land-based air tanker aircraft, which are DC-4s, this government's requirements requested 500 forest fire environment lying hours. Now, why would this government ask for 500 forest fire flying environment hours for pilots and not adhere to that request in the proposal call? Thank you.