This is page numbers 1229 - 1250 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was premier.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mrs. Thompson, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 1229

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, may I make a brief emergency statement with regard to the forest fires that are happening in the Sahtu region?

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier, proceed.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Don Morin's return has been delayed so that he can attend to matters related to the Norman Wells forest fire and evacuation. The Honourable Stephen Kakfwi is also remaining in the region because of the fire situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to make an emergency statement about the Sahtu forest fire.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

You may proceed, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Minister's Statement 86-12(7): Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 1229

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday the hot and windy weather caused the forest fire at Fort Norman to move down the Mackenzie Valley and it is now a threat to Norman Wells. The winds died down overnight and the fire remained about 50 kilometres southeast of Norman Wells. Based on advice from the Department of Renewable Resources, the emergency measures organization made the decision to also evacuate Norman Wells. All night planes flew. First, the 340 people from Fort Norman were moved to Deline and then the jets moved about 400 people to Yellowknife. The evacuation proceeded very smoothly and the Honourable Don Morin indicated that he has nothing but praise for all people involved.

The firefighting crews have now returned to Fort Norman. About 30 firefighters from the Sahtu and Deh Cho are in Fort Norman working to put out spot fires and they have set up a sprinkler system to keep buildings wet. The only loss at this time is the Ursus Airways building at the airport. The worst of the fire seems to be through that area now.

Actions are now being concentrated to protect Norman Wells. Four CL-215s are on site and one DC-4. Two more CL-215s are coming from Quebec. Caterpillars are working to establish a fireguard at Jackfish Lake, about five kilometres out of Norman Wells. Mr. Morin has been impressed with how hard and efficiently the firefighting crews are working in very difficult conditions.

The weather is expected to be hot and windy again today. At this time, we cannot predict when people will be able to return to their homes. Anyone wishing to know who arrived in Yellowknife from Norman Wells and where they are staying can call a special number at city hall. That number is 920-5693. Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to praise all those who are involved in responding so capably and efficiently to this emergency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister's Statement 86-12(7): Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Yellowknife MLAs and I'm sure all the Members of the House, I would like to express our support and our gratitude to the literally hundreds of individuals who have been involved in fighting the terrible fires in the Sahtu region and who have been involved in the emergency response organizations in Deline, Norman Wells and Yellowknife. On short notice, they have responded magnificently to this crisis. I think all of us owe all of those people a tremendous debt of gratitude.

Here in Yellowknife, at 10:00 pm last night, a team was mobilized. There are some 384 people who flew in from Norman Wells through the night. Dozens of municipal officials, territorial government officials and volunteers have been working with these people. They are set up in hotels and at Akaitcho Hall. The city is putting on recreation programs today for some 200 kids. I think all of us recognize that in a time of crisis, people of the Northwest Territories stick together and help one another. This is one of those times and I think we can all be proud of the way we've come together to deal with this crisis. Thank you, very much.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

Kitikmeot Boarding Home Costs For Constituent
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1230

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to raise something that is of concern to me. Last winter, the GLO positions were cut in half to part-time positions; few ended up with full-time positions. Since those cuts were made, people are only working part-time so their income has decreased drastically. At this time, there is a problem. The daughter of a woman who is a GLO is in Yellowknife and I believe it was yesterday that she tried to move to the Kitikmeot boarding home but she was told that she would have to pay room and board.

She was told that, since her mother works for the government and is a GLO, she would have to pay room and board. She couldn't stay at that boarding home when she found out she had to pay. Her mother's income has decreased and this is a big problem. Right now, she's house-sitting for people who are on holidays. She is all alone and her mother worries about her. She doesn't know what to expect, all alone in that house. I'm sure this will create a lot of problems.

A lot of people work as GLOs and most of them work part-time. This will have a big impact on the future. I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kitikmeot Boarding Home Costs For Constituent
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today as chairperson of the Nunavut Caucus to address an issue of some concern to Caucus Members and Nunavut leaders. Mr. Speaker, at the Nunavut leaders' summit in Gjoa Haven from January 19 to 21, 1995, several resolutions were passed which dealt with education and training preparations for Nunavut. To date, aside from one letter to a Nunavut Member of this House, to my knowledge, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has not responded to any parties of the Gjoa Haven summit on the specific recommendations.

The Nunavut Caucus and other Nunavut leaders would be interested in learning about the progress to date on the consideration and possible implementation of these resolutions. Mr. Speaker, there were a number of recommendations directed to the department, including the suggestion of the immediate appointment of an assistant deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment for Nunavut and the establishment of a Nunavut education leaders' working group to be chaired by the assistant deputy minister for Nunavut.

Mr. Speaker, as 1999 draws near, planning for Nunavut must address training and education needs as a priority. Therefore, it is imperative that the Minister formally respond to the resolutions with respect to education so that planning can continue in a coordinated and cooperative manner. An initial response from the Minister will be expected when Members of the Nunavut Caucus address this issue during question period before the conclusion of our session. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

Problems With Custom Adoption Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe it was yesterday that my colleague from Baffin made a statement about custom adoption. We introduced the bill because we wanted to make it simpler to custom adopt. My constituents in the Baffin region have had problems with adopting children. Many of us have run into obstacles with adoption. Maybe after we agree on the bill, it will become simpler to go through custom adoption. Up to now, there have been many problems with adoption. I just wanted to show support to my colleague. It isn't just her constituents who are having this problem. It is all over Nunavut that they encounter this problem. We have to have identification.

As we all know, no one will stop adopting. We just want the people who are responsible to be more careful with this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Problems With Custom Adoption Process
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, it was disappointing, to say the least, when members of the European commission adopted such a rigorous stance concerning the importation of Canadian furs. While I can't say I am surprised at their refusal to consider our views, I am sorry that they appear to be influenced by poorly informed, emotionally-based groups when making trade decisions. Unfortunately, this has led to the commission taking a judgemental stand on the issue, rather than forming an opinion based on objectivity and factual data. It is frustrating that despite genuine efforts by our government representatives to reach a compromise and negotiate in good faith, the other parties appear to be using delay tactics.

In the meantime, our traditional fur industry and the livelihood of some of our people here are threatened by well-funded animal rights' groups who are largely ignorant of the real facts. I take issue, Mr. Speaker, with those who feel they have the right to dictate what constitutes cruelty and kindness for other people. This is a very complex subject that differs with particular circumstances and the cultural values of societies.

If we reacted in the same spirit, Mr. Speaker, it would be tantamount to our North American free-trade union banning trade with Spain until the end of their long tradition of bullfighting, or we could refuse to trade with Britain unless fox hunting was banned and abolished, and insist that France adopt a kinder method of transporting their calves and feeding of their poultry. Obviously this type of behaviour, especially at an international trade level, would be uncharacteristic of people from the Northwest Territories.

At the same time, however, representatives of different nations have to try to establish a common ground. Put simply, that is why our government held the recent meetings with members of the European commission.

I would like to conclude by congratulating the Honourable Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Lewis and other government officials, for representing the Northwest Territories in a gracious manner with attitudes that demonstrated our sense of fairness and our respect for the views of others. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Thompson.

Invitation To Ministers To Visit Aivilik
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1231

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since I have been elected for the Aivilik riding, I have learned how much the needs and concerns of the residents of Aivilik have been neglected in the past. Unfortunately, smaller communities have a difficult time making sure their voices are heard in Yellowknife. Because of this, they often do not receive a lot of attention and, as a result, they feel neglected by the government.

This is why the consultation process is so important to the people of my riding. They need to know that they matter; that the issues that are important to them will be discussed and that any problems they may have will be dealt with soon. To ensure that my constituents' concerns are being addressed, I am extending an open invitation to all Ministers of this government to take some time this summer and travel with me to meet and speak with the citizens of Aivilik.

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make this statement because Aivilik citizens feel neglected. I will try to be a voice for them, so their concerns are dealt with as soon as possible and that we give more consideration for the people of Aivilik. They felt that they were ignored.

So for this summer, I extend an open invitation to all Ministers of this government and welcome them to travel with me this summer to meet with the communities and the citizens of these communities, and listen to their views. Their views need to be heard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Invitation To Ministers To Visit Aivilik
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Congratulating Pwk High School Graduates
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1231

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to take the time to congratulate 23 graduates from PWK High School who graduated May 18th. Mr. Speaker, this graduation was quite significant in the community of Fort Smith because I believe it is the first time in history that they had a majority of aboriginal students graduating. Out of 23 graduates, 16 were aboriginal.

I also want to thank the Honourable Richard Nerysoo for attending such a significant event. I know the students, parents and the school appreciated his attendance. Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank the school, the staff, the principal and the parents, particularly, for giving the support to the students as they took each step of their grade school throughout the years.

Mr. Speaker, we know these students are going to be our future leaders and I am sure we made every effort to give them the keys to their success. It is now up to them to use their keys to open the doors that will allow them to be successful. I know that with the support they have been given, they will do that.

My congratulations to each student and my thanks to all who gave the support to make such an event happen. Thank you.

---Applause

Congratulating Pwk High School Graduates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, buried in the Toronto Globe and Mail yesterday was a fascinating article which injected a touch of reality in the overwhelmingly emotional gun control debate. The story documents the fact that, although the firearms control bill is on the verge of becoming law, no one has yet produced objective evidence that many of its key components will make Canada a safer place.

New Zealand discontinued its registry in 1983 after the national police reported that it was useless. Police in two Australian states have recommended dropping their gun registration programs because they can't enforce compliance.

Professor Gary Mauser, author of a recent Fraser Institute report that is highly critical of Mr. Rock's gun control bill, said the issue has more to do with votes than violence.

Since it is currently fashionable to equate firearms with violence, and there is an emotional crusade against firearms, especially in urban Ontario and Quebec, the government sees a political opportunity.

Professor Mauser says the government ignores evidence that violent crime is more closely linked to social breakdown and to economic and political factors, than to the availability of guns.

countries, less than half the gun owners and no more than 60 per cent of the guns get registered. The bill won't work.

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

---Applause

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Professor Mauser says Minister Rock knows the bill won't work. His Justice department officials have told him and he still wants it. Why is Minister Rock imposing this unworkable legislation on this country? I got the answer from insiders in the Liberal Party of Canada -- I know a few.

---Laughter

Allan Rock wants to use this legislation to propel him as the prime candidate to replace the present Liberal Party leader when Mr. Chretien retires.

Some Hon. Members

Ohh!

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

So, have I got a deal for him. I'm prepared to endorse Mr. Rock as the best person to succeed Jean Chretien as Liberal Party leader if he'll just exempt the NWT from gun control.

So, let's hear it for Allan Rock for next leader of the Liberal Party of Canada!

---Laughter

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ng.

Congratulating Kitikmeot Tep Graduates
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1232

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier this week I spoke on the grade 12 graduation ceremonies held to recognize and honour the first graduates from the Kugluktuk School in Coppermine and the Kullik High School in Cambridge Bay. Later today will be another historic event for the Kitikmeot as graduation ceremonies are being held this afternoon to honour the first 11 graduates from the Nunavut Arctic College's Kitikmeot teacher education program. These 11 graduates, who are now certified teachers, will be instructing children in the region during the next school year. These graduates will use their experience and skills to contribute to the educational system in the NWT. They will also be role models for youth and children in showing that with desire and ambition any goal is attainable.

I would like to formally recognize and congratulate the five TEP graduates from my constituency: Ms. Mary Eetoolook, Ms. Mary Gillis, Ms. Jessie Lyall, Ms. Margaret Lyall, and Ms. Susie Ohokannoak for their achievements. At this time I would ask all Members to join me in congratulating and wishing all graduates the best of success in their future endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Congratulating Kitikmeot Tep Graduates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 555-12(7): Status And Treatment Of Glos
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1232

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Allooloo on June 8, 1995. It concerns the status and treatment of GLOs.

Mr. Speaker, all government employees laid off due to budget reductions, in Yellowknife and other communities, received the lay-off entitlements provided for in the collective agreement. In May 1995, new lay-off provisions were negotiated which replaced the existing lay-off provisions and the workforce adjustment program. The negotiations included settling all outstanding grievances related to the workforce adjustment program.

Minutes of settlement were signed with the Union of Northern Workers to apply the new lay-off provisions to the GLOs. In addition, the government liaison officers were given a further six-weeks' notice of layoff.

Mr. Speaker, if I might I have another one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 554-12(7): Criteria For The Workforce Adjustment Program
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, it's the same subject with regard to criteria for the workforce adjustment program, asked again by Mr. Allooloo on June 8, 1995.

Mr. Speaker, in March 1995 the workforce adjustment program applied to employees whose positions were eliminated or relocated due to change in a department's structure, responsibilities or functions. It did not, Mr. Speaker, apply in cases where positions were altered or eliminated due to budget reductions.

Mr. Speaker, in May 1995, new lay-off provisions were negotiated with the UNW which replaced both the lay-off provisions in the collective agreement and the workforce adjustment program. Many of the benefits of the workforce adjustment program are now included in the lay-off provisions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on June 7th regarding procedures for GNWT laid off or redundant positions.

When a position is declared redundant and the department is unable to find alternate employment for the incumbent of that position, a formal letter of lay-off is issued. The letter provides at least three months' notice that employment will be terminated. Normally, the employee is required to work for those three months but that requirement may be waived at the discretion of the employee's deputy minister.

Mr. Speaker, I have a second return, if I might. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 541-12(7): Provision Of GNWT Procedures To New Employees
Return To Oral Question 536-12(7): Procedures For GNWT Laid-off Or Redundant Positions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Following appointment to a GNWT position, all employees attend a documentation session. In addition, they are invited to attend an information session which provides an orientation to the GNWT. During these sessions, new employees receive information about our government and its policies.

Employees who are appointed to managerial and excluded positions are given employees handbooks with their job offers. These handbooks provide information about their terms and conditions of employment as well as the affirmative action policy and conflict of interest guidelines.

Bargaining unit employees receive a copy of the respective collective agreement but these books do not include such things as these policies.

Personnel staff are presently designing an information package which will be given to all prospective employees. I have asked that they include something in the package that will address the Member's concerns and ensure compliance with government procedures. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 541-12(7): Provision Of GNWT Procedures To New Employees
Return To Oral Question 536-12(7): Procedures For GNWT Laid-off Or Redundant Positions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Where is he? Where is he?

---Laughter

No, just kidding. Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased today to be able to recognize a former constituent, Mr. Troy Harper, who is now an architecture student working here for the summer with Mr. Gino Pin and his architectural firm. Thank you.

---Laughter

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ballantyne.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to recognize the designated hitter from the CBC dream team, Dave "Sweetness" Miller. According to Legislative Assembly slugger and RBI leader, Jeannie Marie-Jewell, the CBC can't hit the ball for love nor money. We believe that Sweetness Miller will turn the CBC team around and once again we will hear the

pure crack of the bat and the applause of their great fans here in the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It being Friday, I have an important question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Mr. Speaker, according to a report I heard on the radio from an undoubtedly reliable source -- some Member of the NDP Party -- the Honourable John Todd used his good offices and funds of his department to finance a trip for two prominent Liberals to attend a fund-raising dinner which featured the Prime Minister of Canada, the Honourable Jean Chretien, in Edmonton.

I've just received an invitation to a fund-raising dinner in Yellowknife at the end of this month which will feature another very important Liberal, the Honourable Paul Martin. I know there are some very prominent Liberals in my riding who would love to be funded to come to that dinner and lobby for important projects in Iqaluit. So I would like to ask the Minister, since I know he's fair to all, generous to all and treats every MLA with equal respect, I wonder if the Minister would entertain funding the modest cost of travel for a couple of prominent Liberals in my riding to attend this fund-raising dinner and lobby for the constituency of Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I'll do even better than that, Mr. Speaker. I'll ensure that the two prominent Liberals who are in Iqaluit will have an opportunity to meet the Prime Minister early this month when he visits Iqaluit.

---Applause

Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1233

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very impressed with the Minister's generosity. But I don't think they'll get a trip out of that one because I think the Prime Minister is coming to Iqaluit. I understand that there's going to be an important fund-raiser in Ottawa later this year which will feature the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, the Honourable Jean Charest. I would like to ask the Minister if he would be prepared to fund two prominent members of the Conservative Party -- there are two of them in Iqaluit that I know of -- to take a trip to this fund-raising dinner in Ottawa.

Supplementary To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

John Todd Keewatin Central

(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Sorry, Mr. Speaker. It should be an interesting evening. You could probably hold it in a telephone kiosk.

---Laughter

No, I don't think it would be appropriate to invest any of our limited fiscal resources to meet with the Conservatives because they are not currently in power and probably will have no opportunity of being in power in the coming years. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaking of limited fiscal resources, I would like to ask the Minister, just out of curiosity, what task and activity within the department would be employed to fund such important lobbying activities at political party functions? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

John Todd Keewatin Central

I know it's Friday and we're supposed to be humorous, but I think it's important to address the issue because obviously Mr. Patterson, who frequently talks about the NDP, occasionally talks about the Conservatives and now is talking about the Liberals, wants a response.

The fact of the matter is that in 1992 there was a roads steering committee. It was set up in Fort Smith. This committee has been actively pursuing the need for additional money from the federal government to expand their road into Alberta which would bring about significant economic benefits to the people of the north. We funded two members of that committee to meet with the Prime Minister to see if he would move up on the priority list the requirement for a joint cooperative approach to the expansion of this highway. Thank you.

---Applause

Further Return To Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Question 558-12(7): Financial Assistance For Liberal Fund-raising Dinner
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As was mentioned earlier, the funding for the positions of government liaison officers in the communities was cut and they became half-time positions. In my communities, their positions were cut by half also, and the employees went to work only half of the day. Mr. Speaker, I would like to get an answer, perhaps from the Government Leader, as to what their status is now, as they were not given appropriate time to respond to their offers. What is the status to date? How many have not accepted those offers? Do you think this GLO funding cut has been successful? I would like to ask the Premier how many of the communities have part-time GLOs and did communities lose their GLOs at all during this turnover? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, in recognizing the realities of restraint, the increased role departments are playing in regional communities and the increased abilities of the communities to tend to their own affairs, a total of 11 government liaison officer positions were flagged for reduction, from full-time to part-time, in the Executive offices main estimates on April 1, 1995. Two of these GLO positions were in the Keewatin region, while the remaining nine were in the Baffin region.

Amended job offers were issued to all 11 incumbent GLOs with a request to respond within a five-day period as to whether they wished to accept the amended offer of part-time employment or if the Government of the Northwest Territories should proceed with a lay-off action.

The two Keewatin incumbents responded to the job offer within the requested five-day period. The GLO in Arviat accepted the offer of part-time employment, while the GLO in Baker Lake chose to receive notification of layoff. None of the nine GLOs, having received part-time job offers in the Baffin region, responded with an acceptance of the offer.

Commitments have subsequently been received from the departments of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment to fund four part-time positions in some of the affected Baffin and Keewatin communities. Where applicable, amended job offers were made.

It's rather lengthy, but I can provide to the Members and circulate by community who has part-time offers and where they are shared with other departments and where the offers are, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat.

Supplementary To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1234

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Premier for her response. My supplementary is brief. In the Baffin, you were saying that there are some who haven't responded, so I wonder if you can give me an update

as to what has happened to date if they haven't responded to their offers? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as I have said in my reply, I will circulate to the Members community by community the exact status of each position. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Question 559-12(7): Status Of Part-time Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier with respect to GLOs. I appreciate the answers that I have received from the government in terms of the reduction that took place that affected GLOs in the communities. I wonder if the Premier would be able to give me the services that GLOs provide to the departments. Which departments in our government contributed to pay for and accommodate GLOs in the communities in terms of paying their salaries and their benefits? Which departments will contribute to pay for them? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, I will provide a listing. In that listing will be a status of what the individual employee has done, what he has accepted; also, the reason why I indicated that I would provide that information and circulate it is because it is a bit lengthy and it also provides the information that the honourable Member has been asking for on which department has offered to share certain positions with the GLO. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Allooloo.

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Premier's answer. The GLO would do work for all the departments, such as Social Services and Transportation -- in terms of issuing drivers' licences; vehicle permits; that sort of thing. Since the government contracts POL to private contractors, GLOs have to make reports to support what's happening in terms of oil being delivered to houses. As well, GLOs are expected to be part of Personnel with regard to interviewing, to set guidelines. With all of these departments requiring government work to be done in the community and expecting GLOs to participate, would they be able to contribute to the cost of having GLOs in the community? Thank you.

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, if possible, I would like clarification. Is the Member seeking further information, in addition to what I had planned to distribute, about exactly what the GLO position is doing at this point in time, Mr. Speaker?

Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Allooloo.

Supplementary To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is, would the departments that require work to be done in the communities and ask the GLOs to do it for them, be able to contribute to the cost of having a GLO in a community? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, what I will do is provide further information, in addition to what I said I would provide on what exactly each position is doing. This is an Executive position. When we looked at the Executive's needs and what the positions would do for the Executive, the idea was that they would be half-time positions. However, all the departments were asked if there were additional needs so that they could finance the position further, to bring the positions up to full-time positions again. I will also provide that information, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Question 560-12(7): Departmental Responsibility For Glo Positions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It takes many kinds of people to make a successful government, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. We all know that Mr. Todd is a very creative, artistic and spiritual person. So, I would like to ask the Minister if he was able to take advantage of the opportunity to visit Santa Fe, New Mexico, where a huge exhibition and convention on North American art took place in the month of May.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I was fortunate enough to spend three or four days in Santa Fe during the opening of this major art symposium, partially sponsored by the department, the Northwest Company and a few other northern companies. Thank you.

Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1235

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, since the arts and crafts industry in the Northwest Territories goes through cycles -- they go up and down and it's very difficult sometimes to plan the business because of the uncertainty of this field -- if there was representation from throughout the territories that he was able to observe while he was there in order to get a feeling about the way this industry is going.

Supplementary To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This launch of territorial art, both Dene and Inuit art, was co-sponsored by the department and the Northwest Company. I believe the launch cost somewhere in the neighbourhood of $590,000, of which we've contributed approximately $150,000, the balance being contributed by industry, et cetera. There was a cross section of northerners there. There were some performers, some artists and, of course, there was strong representation by the Northwest Company. We brought in, from across the USA, 24 major art buyers and dealers.

There was significant involvement with the North American Indian Art Museum and we had the New Mexico government involved. I was told by those who have far more experience than I do, that this presentation at the art gallery saw the largest turnout and participation they had had since the gallery opened a number of years ago.

Further Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Since, as I pointed out in the beginning, our Minister is considered to be a creative individual and very perceptive, what did he learn about the future of this industry during his visit to Santa Fe?

Supplementary To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess why I'm encouraged by what we're doing here, is first of all, it was a partnership arrangement between industry and government. The government's role was to provide some seed funding and to leave the thing alone, in reality to leave industry to develop the market and to renew the marketing of arts across the Northwest Territories.

The gentleman involved who reports directly to the president of the new Northwest Company, Mr. Dennis Hillman, feels confident that he can, with this launch and with some other aggressive marketing, move towards $5 million in additional sales, over and above what we currently have right now, as a start in the next two to three years.

I think the other thing that was important, which we haven't done very successfully over the years, is to market western Dene art. I think it is something that has been a weakness of the department. I was encouraged by the fact that in Santa Fe, the major arts centre for Indian art, particularly for Navaho and Apache people, there was considerable interest in Dene Art. Joanne Barnaby was in attendance with her people. I think the seed money has been well spent. The industry has committed significant dollars to this venture and the Northwest Company has appointed Mr. Hillman, who reports to the president and is making it a priority in terms of their marketing strategy in their network across Canada and North America.

We have put a monetary mechanism in place to determine what our return for investment will be in this important arts and crafts field. I've suggested to Mr. Hillman that we don't make this a one shot deal. We need to come forward with a multi-year approach to this program because it's important, whether you're in Fort Liard -- where we're going this weekend to open a new operation there -- or whether you're in Cape Dorset or Pangnirtung doing prints, that we move to renew the level of sales and revenues we had 10 years ago for northern art. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Question 561-12(7): Minister's Visit To North American Art Symposium In New Mexico
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Economic Development, Tourism and Parks. It concerns the services to the campgrounds and parks in the territories. Some of my constituents visited some parks last weekend and they were concerned that where there used to be potable water available, there was no water. I would like to ask the Minister whether cost-saving initiatives have created a situation where water is no longer going to be provided at these campgrounds. I think it's important to the visiting public to know this because they're getting water from the lake. I would like to ask the Minister whether water services to these parks have been discontinued.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 562-12(7): Status Of Water Services In Nwt Parks
Question 562-12(7): Status Of Water Services In NWT Parks
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1236

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I want to assure the honourable Member that if there was no potable water in some of these parks, it was probably due to an error in maintenance of the parks, and I will look into it. We recognize the importance of parks. I don't want to pick one park over another, but we know from some of the tracking we've done over the last two years that the parks on the highway system see significant occupation by people from outside of the Northwest Territories. We know that there are significant dollars left within the territories, and the importance that is to the economy and the country. I'll look into the matter the Member has rightly raised. Thank you.

Return To Question 562-12(7): Status Of Water Services In Nwt Parks
Question 562-12(7): Status Of Water Services In NWT Parks
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier...Listening to the radio this morning, I noted there was an interview done with the Minister responsible for fire suppression. In that interview, he indicated what type of resources we were using. Looking through the request for proposals and trying to determine whether we're using all our resources, the Minister indicated we're only using one DC-4 to attack the fires in the Sahtu area. Can the Premier indicate to this House whether or not we're using all resources for land-based aircraft and fire suppression to address those fires in the Sahtu region? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that all the resources are deployed in the Northwest Territories. The resources that aren't being used in the Sahtu region are deployed in other parts of the Northwest Territories. I don't have the exact details, but the Minister, in a call last night, indicated that he did not want to take all the resources out of other areas that probably are very subject to a quick forest fire at this time with the dry season. So the resources are, if not deployed in Sahtu, in other parts of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We all know that there are now two communities, and everyone knows that I'm concerned about the fire season this year. When communities are evacuated and a state of emergency is declared -- and it's my understanding they're near that state -- generally you call in other resources, whether they be from the south, whether they be the military or whatever. What other resources besides what the Northwest Territories has provided have been called in to assist addressing these fires in the Sahtu region? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe the statement by the Minister of Renewable Resources this morning did indicate that there were other resources brought in. Two more CL-215s are coming from Quebec. The Caterpillars working to establish a fireguard at Jackfish Lake are, I believe, local. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Premier provide to the Members of this House the types of resources that are addressing the fire issue in the Sahtu so we can tell if we're using all our resources or what areas they're in? I think in a situation like this, the government has to make every effort to use as many resources as possible, whether they be from the south or from the north, to address an emergency state. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will get that information and provide it. The question is taken as notice because I would have to get that information. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 563-12(7): Aircraft Services Used In Fighting Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister responsible for FMBS. I would like to know whether or not Mr. Pollard has received a letter with respect to doing a review on the request for proposals on the air tanker aircraft and Bird Dog aircraft services in the Northwest Territories. Has he received a letter requesting a review be done on this particular request for proposals? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Chairman of the Financial Management Board, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I haven't received the letter myself. I understand that it went directly to the Audit Bureau in the Department of FMBS and they have forwarded it on to Mr. Voytilla. Yes, it has been received by the department, but not by myself personally. Thank you.

Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering if Mr. Pollard could indicate whether the Audit Bureau is going to be doing a review on the request for proposals. Will he advise the House? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1237

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the Audit Bureau wasn't able to make a decision on what action was required in this particular request. As I said, they forwarded it to Mr. Voytilla. Mr. Voytilla advised me of it, I believe, two days ago. He's

looking at it and he's going to make some suggestions to me early next week, Mr. Speaker, so I'll have an update at that time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister indicate to the House whether by next week he would be able to ensure the Audit Bureau can do a review on this request for proposals call?

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I can't second-guess what the department is going to tell me, but what I can tell the House is that a decision will be made next week whether we can or cannot do an audit in this particular regard. So there will be a definitive answer next week. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I don't think the Minister understood my question. I asked once a decision is made, can he advise the House whether or not there's going to be a review on that particular request for proposals. Will he advise the House of the decision? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Question 564-12(7): Review Of Request For Proposals Re Bird Dog Aircraft Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Social Services. As I stated in my Member's statement, one of my constituents was refused accommodation at the Kitikmeot Boarding Home unless she paid to stay. The reason given was that her mother works for our government as a GLO. The GLO is not working full-time any more, thanks to the government. My question is, if the people who are employed are expected to pay at the boarding home, how much do they have to make a year before they start paying for their accommodation at the boarding home? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Cournoyea.

Return To Question 565-12(7): Payment For Accommodation At Kitikmeot Boarding Home
Question 565-12(7): Payment For Accommodation At Kitikmeot Boarding Home
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I'm not specifically familiar with this particular situation. Mr. Speaker, when an individual is brought out of the community for medical treatment, the Government of the Northwest Territories pays for the accommodation. However, I've asked the Member for the name of the individual and we'll proceed as quickly as possible to straighten out that issue. I hope that in a few minutes we'll be able to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 565-12(7): Payment For Accommodation At Kitikmeot Boarding Home
Question 565-12(7): Payment For Accommodation At Kitikmeot Boarding Home
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I've raised many issues in this House in the past as a result of constituents' concerns, and none are more important that the issue concerning the health services in my region. Recently, the Liidli Koe First Nation of Fort Simpson released a report called "Culturally Appropriate Health Services in Fort Simpson." As a result, in the beginning of May, the Minister made a visit to Fort Simpson to meet with community people with regard to this report as well as the whole issue of health.

As a result of the meeting, there were some commitments made to deal with short-term concerns and goals this report identified. I would like to ask the Minister what has been done to date, as a result of the meeting? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, at the meeting of the representatives in Fort Simpson, I committed that what we should do is take a two-tiered approach where we would make a list of the things we could do immediately and some of the issues that would take a little longer to reconcile. I said we would be willing to work with the representative group in Fort Simpson. The department has tentatively come up with a list that they felt they could deal with. However, for some reason, we haven't received the list from the representative group on the areas they felt were priorities to address in the short term. Once session is concluded, I intend to try to get together again with the representative group. Departmental officials are in continual communication to find out if we can list the issues for the short term and for the long term. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1238

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that commitment. During the meeting, there was also discussion about Mackenzie Regional Health Services. Currently, it is headquartered in Yellowknife with a number of

employees serving the Dogrib region as well as the Deh Cho region. There have been commitments made in this House with regard to taking these positions and putting them into the regions. I would like to ask the Premier the status of Mackenzie Regional Health Services' devolution into the regions. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, that's one issue that the department has determined is possible to attain in the short term. We're proceeding to identify the positions and also talk to the people serving in Fort Simpson. We will attempt to make the necessary notifications to fulfil our obligations to the legislation governing labour standards. It is intended that those positions will be in place in early September. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The other issue I would like to ask the Minister about is with regard to a health board of some sort in the Deh Cho region. This has been discussed quite a number of times. The problems arising in the delivery of health services in my constituency seem to stem from lack of local decision-making with regard to health services. This comes down to the question of the board. What has the department done with regard to the development of a health board in the Deh Cho or the constituency of Nahendeh? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, this is not just a one-sided approach to this issue. The community has to be involved. What we discussed at the meeting is in the initial transfer of health responsibilities to the Northwest Territories, there was funding for one board. However, because the Deh Cho has committed to combining a health and social services board, we probably would be able to combine those two responsibilities and move along with a representative agency for that area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Question 566-12(7): Status Of Health Services In Nahendeh Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1239

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister of Finance about the status of the formula financing agreement. There is another very important financial negotiation which should be taking place and is taking place, I hope, in conjunction with the formula financing agreement, and that is the incremental funding necessary for division of the territories. I wonder if the Minister of Finance can tell us how those two negotiations are coordinated? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have tried to put incremental costs for the division of the Northwest Territories on the table at formula financing meetings and have been unsuccessful. The federal government is not particularly interested in discussing that at the present time, although they will tailor the agreement and make mention of the fact that division is going to occur. With regard to addressing the issue of incremental funding, at this particular time we have not been successful in convincing Mr. Martin of it's importance. We will continue to pursue the matter with the federal government, though. Thank you.

Return To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you. I know we have discussed this issue a number of times with the Minister of Finance, but I have some real concerns when the federal government talks about incremental funding when we have no idea what our base is going to be. So, it's really an irrelevant conversation until we know exactly what the base is. You can give us $30 to $50 million a year in incremental funding but if you take $100 million off the base, you're losing $70 million.

I wonder, in the meeting coming up soon with the federal Minister of Finance, if our Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard, will again try to impress upon the Minister of Finance that we need some certainty as we go into division. Because if we don't have certainty as to our fiscal base and stability, we're going to have a lot of problems here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier and I will be meeting with Mr. Martin. One of the issues that we will be raising with him, amongst others, is we see the division process taking place, we're all doing work, whether in ministries or in this Legislative Assembly. We're all moving in that direction, NIC is doing a lot of work, as is NTI. The move is on and there needs to be some certainty with regard to incremental funding. I sympathize a little bit with the federal government because they say, how can we judge what the incremental funding is going to be when we don't know what the forms of government are going to be. But they need to be a little warmer than that on this incremental funding, so we will pursue it with Mr. Martin when he's here, the week of the 26th, I believe. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

Further Return To Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Question 567-12(7): Status Of Formula Financing And Incremental Division Funding Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, I've been advised by individuals in the fire control office about fire suppression. I've been advised particularly about one issue that is quite disturbing. I've been told that prior to the fire getting out of control and becoming a danger to Fort Norman, there was a request to ask for extra bombers but apparently the deputy minister or the Minister's office refused that request. Could the Premier determine and correct if a request to ask for extra assistance for fire suppression was refused? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 568-12(7): Request For Extra Assistance To Fight Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 568-12(7): Request For Extra Assistance To Fight Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, normally we don't, as Premier or a Minister at this level, get involved or have knowledge of those day-to-day operational requirements. It's generally handled by the people who are in the field. However, I can commit to find out an answer to that question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 568-12(7): Request For Extra Assistance To Fight Sahtu Forest Fire
Question 568-12(7): Request For Extra Assistance To Fight Sahtu Forest Fire
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. I know Ministers don't normally get involved in the day-to-day operations. That's why they have personnel staff and deputy ministers. But, unfortunately, this type of stuff has been happening, which leads me to my next question, Mr. Speaker.

On May 9th, the manager for air operations was advised that his services were no longer needed. He was not told whether his position was declared redundant or whether he was dismissed. When the concern came to my attention, I immediately wrote to the Minister responsible for fire suppression and I further followed it up with a question to the Minister of Personnel. He indicated to me today that when a position is declared redundant and the department is unable to find alternative employment, a formal letter of layoff is issued.

With regard to that, Mr. Speaker, this position being responsible in the operations of fire suppression, the employee is required to work for three months but that requirement may be waived at the discretion of the employee's deputy minister. Can the Premier indicate to this House whether or not the deputy minister has waived that particular procedure of the government with respect to fire suppression staff. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

That's a new question. Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I will have to take the question as notice.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to take the opportunity to also recognize in the gallery the board of governors for the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation. They are holding their annual meeting here this weekend. We have Peter Kamingowak -- I apologize if I don't pronounce your names correctly -- Charlie Evalik, Poasie Joamie, Peter Kritaqliluk and Japatie Qappik of Pangnirtung. Welcome to the Assembly.

---Applause

Are there any more names? No. I have to practice that. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Ordinarily, Mr. Speaker, I like to give notice of questions to Ministers, but today I would like to ask the Minister -- I know he is now familiar with his portfolio, having occupied it for some time and having been very diligent -- if he knows if northern municipalities, from whom contractors purchase or rent services or purchase materials qualify as northern purchasers under the business incentive policy? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Madam Premier, would you like to respond for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs?

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would have to take that question as notice.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Are there any further oral questions? Item 7, written questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two written questions. The first one is to the Minister of Health and Social Services.

Would the Minister for the Department of Health and Social Services please advise the House of the following:

What is the status of the proposal call to provide orthodontic services in the Baffin region?

Will it be possible to utilize the facilities of the existing private dental clinic in Iqaluit rather than going to the expense of constructing or renovating duplicate facilities to examine orthodontic patients in the regional hospital?

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

If I may, Mr. Speaker, another separate question is to the Minister of Public Works and Services.

Would the Minister responsible for the Department of Public Works and Services confirm that: Occasionally, when certain services or materials are not available in the private sector, contractors must purchase materials or supplies, services, or rent equipment from municipalities in the Northwest Territories.

Why do these purchases and rentals from northern municipal corporations not qualify as northern purchases under the business incentive policy?

Since our municipalities employ local people and obviously contribute to the local economy, will the Minister work with his colleague, the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, whether there is an appropriate method allowing such purchases to become qualified under the business incentive policy.

Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 115-12(7), the request for proposals which the Government of the Northwest Territories issued in requesting proposals for the provision and operation of heavy land-based air tanker operations and maintenance of CL-215 air tanker aircrafts and associated Bird Dog aircraft services in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Patterson.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 116-12(7), an article from yesterday's Globe and Mail entitled, "Rock Ignoring Gun Control Figures, Critics Say, difficult to Find Relation Between Firearms Control and Homicide Rates, Studies Show." Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Rule 42(10), I wish to table Tabled Document 117-12(7), a response to Petition No. 6-12(7) tabled by Mr. Dent and responded to by the Minister of Justice concerning the support for the Yellowknife victims' services program.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Pudluk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tabled Document 118-12(7) is a letter written by the hamlet of Grise Fiord to HGS Incorporated in Calgary concerning that company's closing and the Noice Peninsula. The hamlet is asking for some agreement to transfer equipment to Grise Fiord, signed by the hamlet mayor. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. We will take a 15-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. We're on item 16, motions; Motion 21-12(7). Mr. Patterson.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Without Mr. Kakfwi being here, I have decided not to proceed with my motion today. I understand that it will die on the order paper, but I may have the opportunity to reintroduce it. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The motion will be dropped from the order paper. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that Bill 33, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3, be read for the second time. Mr. Speaker, this bill amends the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act to provide that the Executive Council shall be composed of persons appointed by the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Premier. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the principle of this bill, initially I supported the concept of it but, after discussions with my constituents, there seems to be a concern. This bill will give the ability to the Premier to hire her Cabinet Ministers and to dismiss them accordingly, as he or she sees fit. The concern that has been expressed to me is that it's, number one, moving towards a party politics system; number two, the particular concern is that basically, once the Members agree on a Premier, then you're giving them full authority to select their Cabinet. Many people feel that in the event this bill goes through, the Premier should be elected by the people of the Northwest Territories and not just the Legislative Assembly.

I find that this bill is going to allow for manipulation in our democratic process that we've adopted as Canadians. I also find that with this particular bill, if it's allowed to go through, as our consensus system of government now operates will take a great step towards party politics and I don't know if all northerners agree with that.

So, with all due respect, I do not support the principle of this particular bill. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was a little bit surprised when the Standing Committee on Legislation made the recommendation for Bill 33 to come forward. I know that the Standing Committee on Finance had recommended a bill that would allow the Premier -- for technical reasons that we saw -- to dismiss Cabinet Ministers. I had not expected that in

addition to that bill, we would now be talking about Bill 33 which would allow the Premier to select Cabinet Members.

Mr. Speaker, three and a half years ago when this first came up in the House during the Territorial Leadership Committee, I spoke in favour of allowing the Premier to select Cabinet and, given the opportunity to do it again, will speak in favour of it again. I think over the last three years I have seen increasing evidence to support the idea that our government would in fact be better if we were to allow the Premier to select the Cabinet Members.

As I see it, Mr. Speaker, our system has a weakness; it doesn't foster a cohesive team approach right now. Over the past three and a half years, a number of times an individual Member of Cabinet, in my opinion, has been left by his or her colleagues dangling and twisting in the wind.

Mr. Speaker, I think we need something that will foster a team approach so that a comprehensive plan of action can be proposed and there's a sense of discipline in government. Rather than constantly shifting priorities as a response to political pressures, we need, especially as funds get tighter and tighter, leadership which can take a global look at problems, set the course and then provide the leadership so we can stick to it.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that discipline requires allegiance. When Cabinet Ministers are elected by other Members, to whom do they owe their allegiance if not directly to those people who elected them?

Mr. Speaker, I would like to compare the Premier to the coach of a sports team. If a coach cannot enforce discipline, how do they ensure the team will perform as it should? We've all seen sports teams where the coach has benched or fired a so-called superstar because they weren't contributing as part of the team. Sometimes you have to be able to do that.

Some suggest that this move would be a step towards party politics. Mr. Speaker, I would argue that allowing the Premier to select Cabinet would actually slow down the drive towards party politics because it would increase accountability. The lack of accountability is something that I think has been a major issue the last three and a half years among the people of the north.

I would also point out, Mr. Speaker, that our system is, in many ways, already operating in a system similar to party politics. We have the different caucuses: Western Caucus; Nunavut Caucus; Ordinary Members' Caucus. Members form and have allegiances to different groups at different times. But, because these shift, it means that the priorities of this House tend to shift much more quickly than is usually the case in government. Government needs to have some stability. The only way we can achieve that stability is if we have some longer term allegiances built up.

I think we have to remember that one of the biggest safeguards we have in our system is our Legislative Assembly works very similarly to a minority government. The Cabinet doesn't have enough votes on its own to set a certain course of action and stick to it. There has to always be enough support from ordinary Members so Cabinet can achieve a majority in this House.

Mr. Speaker, I would also argue that allowing the Premier to select the Cabinet need not be tied to a territories-wide election for the Premier. I think, in fact, that idea leads us down the road towards a Republican style of government, ones we've seen in other parts of the world; the closest one to us being, of course, the United States. I think that form of government, where you have one very, very powerful leader, is one that is even more foreign to the peoples of the north than the style we now have, which I think can be modified to deal with northerners' concerns.

I think, Mr. Speaker, in fact, all the people of the Northwest Territories have a say now in who the leader is in the Legislature, because they speak through their representatives. I was elected to represent the people in my constituency and I don't have any problems voting for the Premier. But I have a real problem with the way our system works after that, Mr. Speaker, because it doesn't lend itself to the team approach.

I think the only way we're ever going to get real accountability, to the point where the Premier is the person this House can look to for a statement of government principles, is to allow the Premier to select the Cabinet. The plan of action would come out during the campaign for Premier during the Territorial Leadership Committee meetings. Those promises and plans would then be on the record and would be something that Members could hold the Premier accountable for, and make sure he or she has a team working with them to achieve those goals.

So, Mr. Speaker, I support the principle of this bill and would urge other Members to do likewise. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, eight years ago I supported this principle and at that time, I think we managed to get five Members or so to support it. Four years ago, like Mr. Dent, I supported it but I think we only got up to six Members. So, it's been a slow process. I'm going to stay consistent. I've felt very strongly for many years that this is the way we have to go. I think if we don't do something, there is more danger that we're going to get into party politics. What I see as the direction for the Northwest Territories -- both in the east and the west after division -- is not party politics but team politics. If team politics doesn't win then party politics is an inevitable fallback position, there's no doubt in my mind.

You need a system that transcends regional differences. Without some kind of approach that can rise above regional differences, the collective won't work. It is my belief that the individual parts are too weak to work, so we need something that can unify us. I think having the Premier choosing the Cabinet would go along with the path of having at least one cohesive force here in the Legislative Assembly which transcends, at least theoretically anyway, regional differences.

Now, I've read in the paper alarmist statements that, somehow, this is going to lead to some sort of a dictatorship but that's nonsense. The reality is, even with this new power, the Premier of the Northwest Territories will have one-tenth of the power of a provincial Premier or the Prime Minister. If we're talking about dictatorships, in fact we presently have 11 quasi-dictatorships across the country. It's called the system, by the

way, and we won't nearly approach that with this system. I think that was an alarmist statement.

There is the other factor of accountability, which I think is a valid factor, but the Premier still has major checks and balances to keep the unbridled power of the Premier in check. In this House, the eight Cabinet Members still need to find five colleagues to support them on every issue. And, rather than calling it a minority government, the way I look at it is as an ever-changing coalition government. The very nature of an ever-changing coalition government means that the government can never really be arrogant because of the different groups, issues and MLAs who may support the government. I think our system actually has some really good safeguards against a Premier running amuck.

We also have the ongoing safeguard that if the Legislative Assembly is not happy with either the performance of the Premier or of the team, they can come up with a vote of non-confidence for one or the other and take the Premier out. Mr. Speaker, I think it's very important to the next Assembly that there is a plan that people can agree on, that there is a strategy to implement the plan and that there's a team to ensure the strategy is carried out. I think that, unless we bring in this critical component, it won't be possible. You have to give the Premier that power. Otherwise, in my own personal estimation, the system is going to ultimately break down.

As the fight about division, the problems with division, the lack of money, and the different aspirations of the different regions take hold, the whole system as we know it can break down. The ultimate result of that would be the big cry for party politics in a lot of corners of the Northwest Territories. I fully support this and hope Members support it. I think it's a step in the right direction. With this critical component, I think there's a very good chance that the next government, the Premier and the Legislative Assembly, can lead us through the very difficult times we'll face in the next four years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the chance to give my views on this. I, too, have spoken on this matter as it has been considered in previous Assemblies and I'm going to remain consistent. I've had the difficult job of being Government Leader and I would like to think that I'm adding that experience to my consideration of this bill.

I want to say that I strongly support the bill. I think if we want to have a strong Premier, a Premier who is a leader, and if we are going to continue to demand accountability of the Premier for the actions and decisions of Cabinet and from Ministers and departments of the government, we must find ways to strengthen the accountability of Ministers to the Premier. We must find a way to ensure that Cabinet Ministers are loyal to the Premier.

Mr. Speaker, it's a tough job and I recall seeing a wonderful cartoon during the life of the 10th Assembly that appeared in News/North. They used to have good cartoonists, then. It showed the Government Leader as a chuck wagon driver. Unfortunately, although the Government Leader had the reins, had a whip and was seated in the driver's seat of the chuck wagon, the horses -- and there were seven horses, each with the name of a Cabinet Minister of the day on their saddles -- were all galloping at full tilt, each one in a different direction.

Mr. Speaker, I think that -- and that was, of course, an extreme illustration -- the problem that we are trying to guard against with this bill is simply that a Minister who is challenged by the Premier for not following government policy, for not being loyal to a Cabinet decision, for undermining a colleague, may say to the Premier and can say to the Premier under the present system: "Well, you are challenging me but I don't have to listen to you; I was put in this job by MLAs and I know who they are, and if you are going to challenge me then I am going to take it to the people who put me here, and your job, Madam Premier, your job, Mr. Premier, is going to be on the line, because I don't owe my job to you. I owe it to the people who supported me in the Caucus." That is the danger, Mr. Speaker, and the weakness in our system.

Now, I would like to say, and I think I agree with the honourable Member for Thebacha, I have grave reservations about the party system and it being applied in the Northwest Territories. I think we already have, with our huge geography, our many languages and cultures, our many geopolitical interests within the Northwest territories, more than enough divisions and reasons for not working together in the territories. I feel that party politics would add to an already complicated political mix in our consensus system. So I don't believe that party politics would help.

I don't agree, however, Mr. Speaker, with the Member when she says, this will take us on the road to party politics. In fact, I agree with Mr. Ballantyne that by putting this extra measure of accountability into the office of the Premier, we will be avoiding that step to party politics. Party politics will guarantee loyalty and discipline of Ministers, and if we don't put this measure in which I think will guarantee that Minister will be loyal to the Premier, then the next alternative is going to be that we will have to create a party system and the party whip will make sure that there's loyalty.

So I see this as a safeguard against party politics rather than taking us inexorably towards party politics, Mr. Speaker. In fact, I want to say that, although I personally think there is a lot of merit in the idea of going further and electing the Premier at large, that procedure certainly will not flow from this bill and should not be confused with this bill. That is another issue and another step, and that might take us perilously close to party politics. This measure need not do so.

Basically, what we are proposing with this bill is something we have considered in Caucus seriously the last two times we have selected a Premier, and that is, we've considered having the Premier select the Cabinet rather than having Members of Caucus select the Cabinet. I know Members like to sometimes have their voice, but I would agree with Mr. Ballantyne: ordinary Members have an awful lot of power in this Assembly, mainly because, Mr. Speaker, there are 15 of us and eight Cabinet Ministers. So, at any time, the ordinary Members can choose to remove a Minister; indeed, the whole Cabinet. They have a lot of power and a lot of ability to demand accountability without insisting that they vote on secret ballot to select Cabinet Ministers.

There is one thing that I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, and I intend no criticism whatsoever of the current Cabinet, but I do believe that having the Premier select Ministers could ensure a better balance geographically, in terms of gender and those things that are important in a government.

Right now, with Cabinet Ministers being elected by secret ballot, there is nobody really there to ensure that the result is balanced. So, for example, and again I don't intend to criticize the current Cabinet Ministers who are all discharging their responsibilities across the territories, but right now, we have a Cabinet that has three Ministers from one region of the Northwest Territories out of eight, and the largest region in the Northwest Territories doesn't happen to have any representation on Cabinet.

So, Mr. Speaker, I cite this not because it was anyone's strategy or plot but because when you have the present selection of Ministers occurring by secret ballot, it's a bit of a lottery. No one really knows what the outcome is going to be. So one advantage of having the Premier select Cabinet Ministers is that there is, I think, more likelihood that there would be a better balance, geographically and otherwise, within the Cabinet.

So, Mr. Speaker, for those reasons, I am going to vote for team politics. I think that's what we are voting on here, to ensure that there's a team and that the Premier selects that team and that team has loyalty to the Premier. I think that what we are voting for here today; team politics, not party politics. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak to the principle of Bill 33, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3; to this point here: "The Executive Council shall be composed of persons appointed by the Commissioner on the recommendation of the Premier."

Mr. Speaker, I want to speak against this bill. I don't support it. Originally, we asked the government to develop a bill, Bill 28, which was a bill to provide that the Commissioner, on the advice of the Premier, may revoke the appointment of a Member of the Executive Council. When the Standing Committee on Legislation reviewed this bill, they recommended to the government to develop Bill 33. Originally, I supported Bill 28 because, through the life of this Assembly, I see that there is a need for a little more authority to be given to the Premier in the discipline of Members of the Executive Council. But as it went one step further in giving the authority to the Premier to appoint Members of the Executive Council, I have to take a stand against it.

The reason for that is that I believe in consensus government, as an aboriginal person, as a Dene person, as a former chief in a small community. That's the way we conduct our business in the communities, and it has worked for centuries. Many years before this government came here, we had a form of consensus government. As a chief, you don't go around selecting your own councillors. The people select councillors to sit with you to direct the business of your nation, to conduct the business of your tribe. The previous aboriginal MLAs that sat here before us tried to incorporate that into this Assembly. That's why they call it consensus government.

We go around the world and in southern Canada, and we say that we have a unique form of government and it works. We have been saying that to people as we travel. It does work. In southern Canada and in different parts of the world, people have travelled to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association meetings. We express these things to them. By changing Bill 33, I think it's going to really change it; it's going to be a big, fundamental change to the way this consensus government will work. The authority will be placed on one person in this Assembly, and that's going to be the Premier. The Premier is going to have the authority to hire and fire the different Members on the Executive Council, and that will take away from the form of consensus government. That's the way I see it.

You can play with the English language by saying it's going to be team politics and so forth, but, fundamentally, we're here to represent people. As a Member of the Legislative Assembly, if we pass Bill 33, we're giving some of our power and authority away to a Premier. The power and authority you have is to vote for who you think will be a good Minister, and you're letting more of your authority go.

The fundamental philosophy that I have is that I'm totally against this one here, especially at the end of our term. We should leave it up to the next Assembly to talk about. It's publicly discussed quite a bit, and whoever gets into the next Assembly should decide how they want it to be governed. What we're doing is setting up the law for the people who will come after us here.

The selection of the Premier; I don't have very much support for any type of party politics. I've travelled in southern Canada and I've seen how things work. Here, we don't have to toe the party line. We've seen what happened to Warren Allmand the other day when he took a position against the Liberal Party. He got booted out as chairman of a very powerful committee in Ottawa. That's what party politics boils down to. That's the ultimate end in party politics. You tow the line or you get kicked out of responsible positions.

Here, people in communities select us. We're here, we represent them the best we can and nobody is telling us how to do it. But with party politics that will change. For example, if the Premier were a strong Liberal person, who would this Premier select? Is he going to select strong Liberal-type people from the east and the west? How is it going to eventually happen? We're talking about this session and maybe into the future.

This is what I'm concerned about, that we're setting a precedent here that we say is not a step towards party politics, but it could be that way. Even now, people are talking about party politics for the next election. This is a topic that has been discussed in public, there's nothing wrong with that; it's a free country and people can talk about whatever they want. But here, we have a unique form of government. By passing Bill 33, I think it will change fundamentally the way we do the consensus government here. Mahsi.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mrs. Thompson, to the principle of the bill.

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Speaker, I am too new to this to make a comment. When the NIC had their meetings in the towns, consulting with people on what type of government we want, I felt that the Inuit people in the communities were not properly trained or properly informed or educated to make decisions on what type of government they wanted. In our Inuit society, we have never had party politics. We have lived in harmony, electing our own leaders by the majority of the public. That's the style we have used for thousands of years.

I understand exactly what Mr. Dent and Mr. Ballantyne have said. I know about the structures of the different governments, but my Inuk mind will always say we are not educated enough yet to make decisions on what style of government we want. I wouldn't want to inherit the style of government that was imposed on us or given to us by people who have not lived in our shoes before.

I was very upset at the NIC meeting at being asked without being informed, without being given pamphlets, without being educated on the styles of governments around the world; just to be asked what type of government do you guys want. I understand there has to be team work, but we have done team work in our Inuit communities very well. I guess I'm saying that before we start introducing these bills, from my riding I would like my communities to be educated first as to what types of government there are in the country, what types of government work around the world, before we are given a chance to say anything about what types of styles we need for our future.

Maybe it's good to have party politics, coming from a non-aboriginal point of view, but it just didn't sink into my Inuit mind and I know it didn't sink in my father's mind; no one tried to explain to him that team work in this style of government is a drama played before the public.

I was very upset that my people are not educated enough to be asked what style of government we want yet. Before we do that, we don't feel comfortable making a decision.

I understand where the non-aboriginal people are coming from, and I understand that's the best way for you guys to do it. But coming from a small community, coming from an Inuit perspective, I cannot comprehend this yet. I know the people in the communities cannot comprehend that yet because we have not had any other type of governing body in our communities. Thank you for your time.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Thompson. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I've listened to all the arguments and I was trying to figure out if there was anything new to say that hasn't already been said.

I also remember eight years ago, or nearly eight years ago, when we had this debate. I was very much in favour, at that time, of the leader, as the person was called at that time, doing the art -- because it is an art -- of putting a Cabinet together that could do all the work that needed to get done; but, there were only five people in support of it and four years later there were six, today there may be as many as seven.

I know that in politics, change doesn't come quickly. Parliamentary systems act cautiously and move along quietly, and you don't do things by revolution; things evolve.

I would speak a little bit about all these bogeymen that people pose about imposing party politics. This Legislature can't impose party politics, but that's what happens; people do that. And if people get so fed up, sick and tired about what goes on here because we can't solve our problems, or don't evolve fast enough, then it will happen. There is a bigger danger in not doing something to improve our system, than setting up the fear that we're imposing party politics on people by what we do. If we don't do things to fix the problems that people are always telling us we have -- and they have been referred to earlier -- then it's very simple to start party politics.

If I wanted to, from now until October, all I would have to do is get enough people -- and I think I need three people -- decide on a platform, register under the societies ordinance, call myself whatever I wanted -- the Equality Party, the Freedom Party -- I could sell memberships, and I can ask people if there are enough of them to share my ideas about where I want to go. It doesn't happen from the top, it happens from the grassroots. That's what's going on right now in our system.

The idea that we don't understand party politics, team politics or the ideology is just nonsense. We have Members of Parliament in Ottawa. We send people there, that's our government. We have two Members right now; we're Liberals. Everybody understands what they are, what they represent, we vote for them and we send them there. That's our government. So, to say that we don't understand is just not right. People do understand. The territories votes in federal elections and send people to Ottawa that we want to have there representing us. It's nonsense for people to say they don't understand what party politics is; they do. Whether they want it in our Chamber here is a different question. That's the question we have to ask.

And, as far as I'm concerned, Mr. Speaker, the problem we have now is this: we've made some token gestures. We decided that we don't want our leader to be called the Government Leader any more and we want that person to be called the Premier, because when that Premier goes to all the meetings with all the other Premiers, we want to show that we are the same as everybody else; for that purpose. Yet, it doesn't mean anything if the Premier is no more than a chairman of the board who makes sure everybody stays more or less decorous, follows the order of business and whatever rules are set down. But, really, there are seven governments here; you don't have one. Whatever a Minister wants to do, he will; as much as he can, decide to do that. Some people like the broken field play, that they have tremendous autonomy to do this, this and this, even though it doesn't seem to be consistent with what other people are doing.

Mr. Speaker, since I promised not to repeat what other people have said, I'll say the danger is this: if we don't improve our own system and do something to fix the problems people say we have, then we will get party politics. And, it will have nothing to do with what people do here, it will have to do with what people do out there. They will decide what will happen. It will only happen, though, if we fail to make our system better, to improve it so that the consensus system that we have will evolve in a way that is consistent with many of the things that have been said in this Chamber about our uniqueness, how different we are and how we solve our problem in a modern way, if you like. It's not only modern, it's a way that is consistent with the traditions that have been passed down over a long, long period of time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to speak briefly on Bill 33. I believe what the Member for Aivilik stated earlier, that the communities are not trained in the doings of the government. NTI representatives stated that the representative of Parliament who represents Nunatsiaq said that he supported the people of Nunavut with regard to gun control. He was elected by the people but, because he is a Liberal, he feels he cannot go against the gun control legislation.

Although the Inuit are in support of amending parts of the gun control legislation, Jack Anawak was not able to say whether or not he was in favour of gun control. The Inuit vote for people who can represent them in the best way possible. There are a lot of people who are not in favour of gun control in the north, but the Members of Parliament cannot state whether or not they're in favour of the bill. Although Jack Anawak represents the Inuit, he cannot.

Today, I think people need to be trained and, perhaps, later they will have a better understanding of how to present themselves. If I was to ask people in my constituency about what they know about the bill, a lot of them would probably say that they don't know enough and that there's not enough consultation. Because of this, I cannot support this bill. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Allooloo.

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with respect to the proposed bill, I would like the proposed bill to be explored more in our Assembly. We have a committee process in this Legislature.

Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

---Laughter

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

I have been listening with great interest to what Members have to say about this bill and I would like to hear more about it. However, if we don't pass it to second reading, we can't do that.

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

So I would like the committee to explore the pros and cons of this legislation.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Do we have time?

Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, since the government will give this bill to the Standing Committee on Legislation after second reading, I will allow that to happen, so there will be more views expressed.

---Applause

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Nerysoo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe, as Mr. Patterson might be reminded, I was the one holding the reins in the 10th Assembly.

---Laughter

I had to pull back some of the people who were sometimes somewhat hypocritical about their positions.

Some Hon. Members

Ohh.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I want to make a couple of comments. There are, Mr. Speaker, I think, legitimate reasons for the recommended change. I think, speaking from experience, that one of the underlying reasons that most people want to make choices is the whole issue of some certainty of loyalty.

I understand the concern that my honourable colleague for Nahendeh has that the process of reaching consensus is designed to ensure that there is some appreciation and understanding of the positions and the variety of positions that might be taken.

But I also want to remind Members that probably the most powerful political party in the last two decades, until its demise five or six years ago, was the Dene Nation. In terms of the party relationship and the partisan positions that we took on claims, on aboriginal rights and the collective position we held together, we really showed, I think, that we were, in fact, a great political party. The bad part about what has happened, I think, indicates exactly those things. There came a time when all of us or some of us, in fact, didn't take seriously the collective importance and the political partisan relationship that was necessary for that group to be very powerful.

I see that situation as being probably the same thing with our Cabinet. There has to be a leader who leads us that receives the loyalty and support that is necessary to carry out the collective will; no different in many respects, Mr. Speaker, than our support that, at one time, we showed collectively for a man by the name of Georges Erasmus in the Dene Nation. He was our leader and we collectively supported him.

I see this whole process as being of a somewhat similar nature. Maybe in some respects we need to have this discussion outside of this Legislature and certainly we need to ensure that the people have an opportunity to make their choices.

But I am also going to say this. Despite our efforts to pass the Legislature or to give whatever direction necessary, I think it is an important issue that needs to be taken to the people. I think that, whether we take it now or whether we take it through the election, it's important that we hear clearly what the people have to say about the authority that our leader should have.

Now, saying that, Mr. Speaker, I hope that we understand that, as Mr. Lewis has said, it should really be left in many respects to the choice and direction of the people, and maybe one way of hearing that, if it doesn't happen, is through our standing committees, and if not, I certainly do hope it is one of the issues that is articulated and clearly identified on our political platforms.

The other point I also want to make clear is that I think the principle, while we are debating it, is that we are also giving second reading and therefore giving an opportunity for others to at least have their view and express their position clearly on this particular matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will support the bill. I want to see this, as my colleague for Amittuq has quite correctly pointed out, debated a little bit further, and I am certainly aware that it will be an election issue.

In my opinion, when it comes to the principle of the bill, what we are doing is we are evolving. We are evolving from one form of government to another form. The ultimate form of government, of course, would be political parties, which none of us want to see here at this point in time. It has been brought up in many elections in the past and will continue to be debated in elections in the future, I am sure.

Many of us have spoken about the unique form of government that we have here in the territories, and we boast about it when we travel internationally. People do look at us with envy that we can manage the way we have. But that type of relationship, Mr. Speaker, that we have so much enjoyed, has been eroded in the past four years. It was not consensus any more; it was quasi-party politics, without names. This, in my opinion and in the opinions of many people that I represent, is a good, positive steps towards rectifying a situation that I guess could, if taken to its ultimate, get out of hand, and we will end up with what we don't want: party politics.

Here's a relief valve, if you wish, that will meet our needs in this unique Legislature and for the next government. Then, we can go back to consensus government at a later time, if we choose and if the people direct us, or we can make a step forward into party politics if that is what the people direct us to do and that is what this House does at the end of the next four years.

I think that we do need to debate this a little bit more to work out some of the things that are perhaps frightening to us, like my colleague from Yellowknife Centre has said. We see a wolf behind every bush on some of the issues that would scare us. How are we going to do these things? How are we going to accommodate the selection of a Premier? How are we going to ensure that there is a balance between the respective groups in the territories, the Dene, the Metis, the non-aboriginal, the Inuit? How are we going to ensure that is happening? How are we going to ensure that there is a balanced representation on Cabinet of those people by population, those types of things; where one represents 25 per cent of the population of the territories, one should have 25 per cent of the say.

Some Hon. Members

Ohh.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Oh, I love that. I love it. That is true consensus, you see that we do agree.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Whitford, can we avoid any debates here and have some order in the House? Continue, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate your guidance. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to conclude by saying that I don't think by defeating this motion we will solve anything. I think we will accomplish an awful lot by approving second reading, getting it to where the Standing Committee on Legislation can look at it, getting it to where the public can give us some more input when we go back to our respective constituencies, as my colleague from Amittuq quite correctly pointed out.

I am supporting the motion, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a very interesting debate on the bill. I have been hearing a lot of different opinions from the Members of this House. I don't have a lot of opinions on this bill; however, I would like to make a few comments.

The reason why we are debating this bill is because of our constituents; so that we can better serve them in the future. This is not just for the current Members of the Legislature. We try and look for ways that we can improve our ways of life and quality of life. We would like to see this bill being debated with dignity and equality for all people. Somehow we have to try to come up with a compromise so the pros and cons of this bill can be debated further, to help our people in the future.

Some Members stated earlier that in the smaller communities, there is no such thing as party politics, that this is something new to us. However, our younger generation will be more involved in party politics, as it is becoming inevitable. At this time, we have to be able to make up our minds about what would be better suited for the public we serve. Although we would like to make everyone happy when we pass legislation, we cannot always make all the people we represent happy, whatever it is about. I would like to state that I'm coming from an aboriginal point of view. I am here to represent my constituents and I have to speak for them, since they cannot be here.

I would like to encourage young people who will be involved in government in later years to become more aware about what is happening today in our Legislature. We have to start educating the people we represent so they will be better informed and have a better understanding about what kind of system we want to have in our government. We have to have a good government and have to work together to come up with a system that would be best suited for all the people we represent. I have a concern that, in light of fiscal restraints we are currently undergoing, come 1999 we aren't sure where we will be fiscally. I know we are going to go through a tough time trying to get a government running in Nunavut. However, we have to start preparing now so that our government can run smoothly in Nunavut.

I really can't decide whether I'll oppose or vote for the bill we're discussing right now. These are all the comments I wanted to make, Mr. Speaker. Sometimes our constituents tell us that we don't give them enough information or that we don't consult with them enough before we vote on important issues such as the bill we're debating at this time. We have to be able to inform the public about what kind of system we will move to in the future. I know we try to do the best we can for our constituents. I can't say whether I will be voting in favour or against this bill at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A number of Members have made a number of points and I don't want to repeat what my other colleagues have said with regard to Bill 33. Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me backtrack and give you some facts. When the whole issue of discipline came up with regard to Cabinet Ministers, an issue was raised in the Standing Committee on Finance. We indicated that we needed something to be rectified and I think the government has done that with Bill 28 -- which also amends the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act -- which gives authority to the Premier to discipline the appropriate Ministers.

As you may recall, Mr. Speaker, the Members indicated that we've been running into a lot of problems, especially when the House wasn't sitting. This area was identified by our standing committee, and we were happy that the government responded to our recommendation to rectify this problem we've been having for the last number of years. That was done through Bill 28. Now, while Bill 28 was being reviewed by the Standing Committee on Legislation, for some reason or another, they decided it hadn't gone far enough. They wanted to also give the Premier additional powers to hire, which wasn't the intent of the Standing Committee on Finance. We saw the problem as not being able to discipline between sessions. We ran into a number of problems, and I'm sure I don't have to identify specific instances during the last few years when that happened.

Mr. Speaker, during their review, the Standing Committee on Legislation recommended to the government that this particular item be brought forward. I know the government is adhering to the Standing Committee on Legislation's recommendation to give additional power to the Premier but, nevertheless, I have a problem with this bill, Mr. Speaker. Number one, how are we going to properly consult the general public on this issue? We have a process that we follow when legislation is introduced into this House. And, as you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Members have categorically indicated that we will most likely not sit later than June 14th.

But, I know for a fact that if this bill goes through second reading and is referred to the Standing Committee on Legislation, they would have to hold public hearings and, most likely, travel to the five regions of the territories, to get comments from the general public on this issue. Also, there has to be adequate time to advertise in the newspaper and on the radio, et cetera. Possibly on television, also. I'm questioning the time frame that we're dealing with because my understanding, from talking to a number of Members, is that everybody wants to leave by next week, on Thursday. I don't think we're going to have adequate time to deal with this legislation.

Members have indicated in this House, as my colleague from Amittuq said, that we should consult the public and let the public have input into this issue. I agree. If this thing passes, I agree that we should have proper consultation with all constituents. In order to facilitate that, Mr. Speaker, it means we will most likely not adjourn until maybe late July. If Members are willing, then I'm willing too.

Mr. Speaker, another concern I have with this bill is we're tying the hands of the next group coming in, the 13th Assembly. As my colleague from Nahendeh indicated, especially during our last session, we have been passing legislation on this floor that will bind the hands of the people coming into the 13th Assembly. Why don't we let them decide how they want to deal with this issue we're dealing with today?

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues have indicated in the House that they want to do this. I'm having a bit of a difficult time. As I indicated, there is the timing of this. Are we going to have proper consultation? Secondly, I feel that we're tying the hands of the new people coming in to the 13th Assembly.

For those reasons, Mr. Speaker, I can't support the principle of the bill. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 33 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to committee.

Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Committee Report 10-12(7), Report on Bill 32: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2; Bill 25, Education Act; and, Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. We have a motion on the floor which is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall rise and report to the Speaker.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Whitford, item 20, report of committee of the whole.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Is there a seconder to this motion? Mr. Allooloo. We have a seconder but we don't have a quorum.

The chair recognizes a quorum. There's a motion on the floor. All those in favour? Those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Nerysoo.

Point Of Order

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of order. Could I ask unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents?

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo, it's not a point of order, but the Member is asking for unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents. Do Members agree?

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

There is no opposition. Proceed, Mr. Nerysoo.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 119-12(7) is a letter to Mr. Dennis Patterson, MLA for Iqaluit. It's a response with regard to the leaders' meeting on education and training for Nunavut, dated May 16, 1995.

I also wish to table Tabled Document 120-12(7), a letter I received from the Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories on April 28th regarding the debate on Bill 32.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Nerysoo.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, could I also seek unanimous consent to return to item 3, Members' statements?

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

The Member is asking for unanimous consent to return to item 3, Members' statements. Is there any opposition? There being none, Mr. Nerysoo, you can continue on item 3.

Samuel Hearne High School Graduation
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to indicate my sincere apologies to the graduates of the Inuvik Samuel Hearne High School for my non-attendance at their graduation this afternoon. The reason for my not attending, Mr. Speaker, was to hopefully, as Minister, become involved in the discussion on the Education Act today. Unfortunately, we didn't get to that point.

First of all, I just want to extend my congratulations to all the graduates. Hopefully I'll be able to see them this weekend. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Samuel Hearne High School Graduation
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, orders of the day. Mr. Clerk.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1249

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meetings on Monday at 9:00 am of the Standing Committee on Legislation and at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus.

Orders of the day for Monday, June 12, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Committee Report 10-12(7), Report on Bill 32: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2

- Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 - The Education Act

- Bill 25, Education Act

- Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1250

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House now stands adjourned until 1:30 pm on June 12, 1995.

---ADJOURNMENT