That was my point. Because you are only allowed to have three, based on the per them amount that is going to be offered, it isn't cost efficient for these people to be running the camp. If you increase the number somehow and permit them to take seven or eight, then they would have enough money to run these camps because you have the per them rate. Then they wouldn't be able to do the service they were expected to do because the numbers are higher. So that was my point. Although we have said we are going to go to a per them rate because we can't fund them, it isn't feasible, Mr. Chairman, as the Minister has just pointed out.

Here we have a home-grown, in-the-North approach that is working. It is lowering the incarceration rate and repeat offenders. That is the whole point, Mr. Chairman.