This is page numbers 537 - 581 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the RCMP have the authority to decide whether or not there are reasonable grounds to lay a charge. They don't have to consult with the prosecution. Although in special circumstances, that may be part of the process but, generally speaking, no.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would then suggest that some form of policy should be in place to encourage them to use better discretion. I refer particularly to a case recently in Tuktoyaktuk where one person was charged with aggravated assault for stabbing another person. The person who did the stabbing charged the other fellow with hitting him with a bottle and breaking the bottle over his head. Both cases went to court. One went to judge and jury. I believe the jury found him not guilty. I am sure both of them are wondering what ever happened there. They were both found not guilty. I believe between the two of them, they are sure that something happened. If the RCMP were allowed to use discretion as far as laying charges, maybe there wouldn't have been any charges at all. In the end, these two people shook hands in court. This cost the taxpayer a lot of money to fly those judges and those lawyers back and forth. In the end, nothing came of it. Those people went home happily.

This is a good indication that our system is not really all that effective. I dare say from the point of view of lawyers, it is very effective. It supplies a good living. From the point of view of the taxpayer, it is costing us a lot of money and we have to find a better system whereby the RCMP who are involved would have the ability to make judgements there and have some kind of political back-up that these decisions are going to stick. This would solve a lot of our costs.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we all know, not all charges that are laid and not all prosecutions are successful. I can't comment on the individual case that Mr. Steen is alluding to. You never know what the outcome of a court decision will be and that is why we have it so that the impartiality of the circumstances that are presented by the prosecution and the defence are laid out and the jury or judge makes their decision based on those facts. There are some discretionary decisions. The RCMP can lay charges,

but if the Crown prosecutors feel the charge may not stick or the probability of being successful might not be that great, then they can decide to drop the case. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I don't bring these things up lightly. I have been a justice of the peace for 15 years. I know there were many cases in front of me in my court. The RCMP would have been just as happy if it had never come to court. On the advice or the authority of the prosecutor, they did go to court. I believe that if we look back in our records of the Territories, you will find that years back when the RCMP had more authority, there was much less crime and fewer repeat offenders. There was more success in the outcome of the court cases. That is my own opinion. I tend to support that opinion very strongly. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, do you wish to respond? That was a point.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to acknowledge the honourable Member's comments. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. If there are other Members who have not spoken yet, please indicate. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the camp to be established in Aklavik; has that been put off indefinitely?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 21st, 1996

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With respect to the community correctional facility, that has been put on hold until the community justice initiative comes forward and we try to determine where the best use of those dollars could be, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So you are saying the money is still in the budget, but that project has been postponed? Are the resources still in the budget?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated in my opening comments, the money that was approved last year has been carried forward. It is before you today in the main estimates. It is approximately $1.074 million for those new projects. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 553

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

We are going to be here until the first week of June, so don't rush it. Regarding the question of the facilities, your predecessor did give me some assurances that this project was going forward. I find it confusing that you, as the new Minister, have made the decision on your own or

did you receive direction from the previous Minister on exactly what has happened in that case? I did have assurance that this project was going forward.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is in line with the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Social Programs not to proceed with this project until the community justice plan came forward for review. Thank you.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. I have Mr. Krutko.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Basically, the direction that you're going is based on the direction of the Social Programs committee, yet the dollars are still within the budget. Have there been any contribution agreements made with the community of Aklavik as to where this stands, or what correspondence has taken place? Are there any agreements in place for this project? This has been in the works for several years and, at this stage, it seems that it's kind of ironic that your predecessor supports the initiative, yet the Social Programs committee gave you direction that they didn't have a problem with the first round but now it seems that it's coming back to the budget and the resources are still there to carry out this project. I find it kind of confusing. Was this a personal decision?

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 11: Appropriation Act, 1996-97 Department Of Justice
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 554

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I indicated earlier on this matter, the capital money was approved but no operations and maintenance money was approved for these projects. Because of that, the department, within their current financial spending, didn't have the access to additional resources to operate these facilities if they were to be established. That was the reason they've been put on hold. There has been no contractual agreements made on these facilities with any organization, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.