Yes, it applies to all positions in the government system.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yesterday, in the response to a question I asked on interviews, Mr. Todd had indicated that there was a lot weight placed on interviews. Does he know how much weight is actually placed on an interview in relation to a person's qualifications?

No, I am sorry, I do not.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did the Minister reply?

It is difficult to quantify what you place on this versus that. I am not aware, for example, on a scale of one to ten, you say it is three points for this, five points for that. I am not aware of any weighing in a quantitative sense as it relates to interview versus affirmative action, et cetera.

I could tell you the policy of this government, and despite the fact we may not have done it as well as we should, but the policy of this government, and the Premier has given clear direction to the Ministers, that affirmative action is a priority, and they are going to be held accountable, including myself. As I said yesterday to my colleague, Mr. Erasmus, I would hope that, at this stage of the game, I know it is an important issue, it would give us the benefit of the doubt.

I hope that twelve months from now as we sit in this House again, that Ministers would be able to demonstrate to Mr. Erasmus and others that there has been movement in the affirmative action field as it relates to employment in this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that the Minister wants some time to see how things have proceeded in order to evaluate. If I remember correctly, almost a year ago today, we did the same thing. That is when we really needed personnel, sometime through this process last year. It has already been a year, from my point of view. I do not think the people who are losing out on jobs over the next year are going to be too appreciative of having to wait another year before we can monitor things.

In the area of the interviews, is there anybody from FMBS that attends the interviews?

I understand where Mr. Erasmus is coming from, and he has a legitimate concern, as it relates to affirmative action. I am hoping that we will be able to address some of his concerns in the paper that we are going to bring forward in the House, so we can have a healthy debate on it.

I do not think we will be able to address all of his concerns, but I want him to know that we are as genuinely concerned as he is about this area. We should get into a real healthy debate, as it relates to affirmative action with employment with this government.

The question on FMBS being active with interviews in other departments, the answer is no. We do get involved in the appeal process. We have the responsibility for that. As I said yesterday, everybody has the right to appeal. Our role is on the appeal side, but the responsibility now lies with each department to do its own recruitment, et cetera. Bearing in mind the criteria and the weight that this government places on affirmative action.

I think it is important to point out that in the interview process, the proper qualifications gets you into the interview. The interview itself is really to assess your actual skill and suitability for the work. The qualifications in the front end is what gets you into the interview. The interview really is a process of determining suitability and skill package. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So qualifications gets you an interview, and the interview is completely subjective. FMBS does not get involved until the appeal. Could we get some indication as to how the appeal is done?

Just to make sure I get this accurate, Mr. Chairman, I will ask Mr. Voytilla, who is intimately involved with the process of the appeals, to answer that question.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When we conduct an appeal, there is an independent chairperson who is selected to oversee the appeal. There is a representative from management, and usually a representative from the union. They form a committee that hears from the appellate and from management and from people who conducted the staffing operation, and then they make a decision.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did Mr. Voytilla indicate that they interview the person that is appealing as well?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, they do interview the appellant.