Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page nine of the Minister's Budget Address it refers to a new initiative, the Accelerated Home Ownership Program. This certainly is a welcomed initiative, especially for the people of the eastern Arctic. Mr. Chairman, I note that the figure that the Minister referred to was an additional $40 to $50 million over the next two years for this program. My question to the Minister is why is there such a variance in these figures? We are talking a $10 million variance. I realize the budget is just a measuring tool, an approximate, but why is there this much of a variance? Thank you.

Well, I could have said up to $50 million. I think when we were writing this part of the budget speech we

were looking at what the uptake might be in this period of time, and it really depends on how well we do in finding the appropriate clients again to lever the mortgages through the EDAP expansion, et cetera. So, you know, it is not intended to show the variance, it is just intended, I think, if my memory serves me correct, to indicate what we thought the uptake may well be. It certainly will not be any more than $50 million at this time because that is what we think we can manage. Really, the intent of this program, which my colleague the Honourable Goo Arlooktoo has been almost a rabid advocate of, is to try to get about 1,000 houses on the deck as quickly as we can and to target people that are in both staff housing and social housing and who can move out so that we can get a greater degree of home-ownership. There is, of course, a huge economic side to it in terms of jobs on the construction side, the purchasing of goods and services. We are hopeful that with the Housing Corporation's targeting of people in social housing who can move out that it will free up much needed social housing that Members have said, I believe, some Members, maybe it was Mr. Picco or some others that said we have not been able to construct over the last four or five years because of the cuts at the federal level. So, it is nothing more than that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One final question in this area. The Minister speaks of approximately 1,000 homes in this program. Without going into a lot of detail, can the Minister give at least some general information and background as to how this is going to take place and how the program is going to work?

Of course, the Minister responsible, Mr. Arlooktoo, can speak in much more detail as to how he intends to put this program on the ground, but in general, it really is an expansion of an existing EDA program. There might be some slight changes to that because I think it would be fair to say that there was some slippage in the last program. There may have to be some changes. I believe Mr. Arlooktoo is working hard on that right now. It is targeting, if you want, as I said earlier, people who we can move out of public housing, who are in there right now and who have the

capacity to pay for a mortgage. If my memory serves me correctly, because it is a detailed question, but my understanding is, we may also be looking at, in the past, we have looked at stand-alone buildings. It may be a necessity to look at multi-plexes and stuff like that because we need to get some cost efficiencies to housing. At the end of the day, we are, as I said, hopeful. While this is not a be-all, end-all, there is no question about that, but it will bring about some relief to a very difficult and critical housing shortage we have across the territory. When you get to the detail, Mr. Arlooktoo will be able to answer as many questions as he can, Mr. Chairman, in answer to Mr. O'Brien's question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On another matter referring to the P3, we have heard examples and comments made about the program which could be used, in Iqaluit for example, with their hospital, Inuvik, Cambridge Bay, and I realize the Minister indicated that the policy or the regulations have not been provided to the House as of this date. I wonder if the Minister can at least provide some information as to how he intends, generally, to make sure that programs or projects are delivered and the allocation of these funds on a regional basis to make sure that what we are doing is fair, and that all the regions we talk about, the large communities, but the smaller communities, that they benefit also in this area? Thank you.

I did table today and, of course, you have not had an opportunity to read it, but some of the guidelines, and now I would go back to what the Chairman said earlier in his comments to the Budget Address. You have to give us some flexibility and latitude as we develop the policies, if you want, regulations, because it is new. We do not have all the answers today, but we will get some of the answers as we move along, which is the first thing I have to say.

I think when we recruited Mr. Coles, we were fortunate because he has an inordinate amount of experience and he understands some of the issues that are before us. I think, I have to say again, that from my perspective, while there has to be transparency and there has to be fairness, I want to keep coming back to affordability too. We have to be able to afford it. We cannot put the government back into debt that it cannot afford over the long term.

I would caution everybody, and this gives me an opportunity to get my two cents in here, that I do not see the Public/Private Partnerships as some huge panacea at the soul of all our infrastructure problems. I see it as a one small step in trying to alleviate the difficulties that we have had because of the cuts we have made to the capital budgets. It is not like we are going to go out there and spend millions and millions of dollars. The reality is, if you do two hospitals - I was going to say Arviat, pardon me, in Iqaluit and Inuvik - you could be looking at a $50 million bill right there you know, a $60 million bill. Mr. Chairman, I think that Mr. O'Brien and the others will have full exposure and full clarity on ultimately what comes down through the pipe and we will have lots of time to influence and give direction on where we are spending and where we are moving on the P3 I look forward to that debate. I mean, I know it is important. I know that our critics are saying there could be some other hidden agenda. I can assure you, there is no hidden agenda on the P3. The only agenda is to try to get the infrastructure back up to where it belongs, and I would hope that we would be able to reassure Mr. O'Brien and others that the concerns he has with respect to his riding or other ridings are going to be addressed in the next, hopefully, two to three weeks. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess that is my concern, when you indicate that between Inuvik and Iqaluit we could have up to $50 million in capital. We want to make sure in the smaller communities that they are treated fairly and their needs are addressed, because to me, to spend $50 million in two communities and nothing in the other small communities, I do not think is what I would consider fairness. We have to look fairly closely at the needs of the smaller communities, and if it means that we do not spend $50 million, we spend $30 million and spend the other $20 million in the small communities, that is something we should be considering, if it comes down to dollars and cents and we find ourselves short.

Moving on to another issue that is related to this in reference to the bankers and business people who were at the great shrimp meeting last week. Those people were invited guests, and that is fine. My question is, how does one get invited or brought into this particular program to make sure that everybody has a chance and that if there is investment possibilities and potential, these other parties who were not there that they have an opportunity also to take part in this program should it take off?

Well, for clarity purposes, I could not agree more, Mr. O'Brien. There has to be some fairness and some equity and transparency to the issue. I do not know how much more I can say about it. I am trying to respond to you. I think we are going to do that. I believe we are going to do that. I mean, it is not only politically expedient, politically smart to do it, it is what the public expects. In any new policy where we are going to put a government into debt, because that is what we are doing here, we need to make sure they see clearly where that money is going and is it affordable and is it the right thing to do. Maybe, I will take some of the blame for the Shrimpgate. You know, maybe that was an error in judgment on my part, in not coming down to speak, not only to the Members, but speak to the public at large. If that is the

case, I will say for the last time, I apologize and it was an error in judgment on my part.

The meeting with the bankers really was a private discussion between a Finance Minister and an initiative to see if in fact they were interested in looking at the P3, so that if things do occur in Arviat or somewhere else, that these guys who determine corporate policy for their banks at a local level would, I guess, be receptive to the policy. So, that really was my intent at the time and obviously, I did not do it very well. I would hope that my apology would be sufficient to close the discussion on the bankers issue.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will speak in my first language. So, there is a requirement for an earpiece, Members. Qujannamiik. (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This item we call the Budget Address is a delightful document because it is helpful to the communities within Nunatsiaq, within the NWT, particularly to smaller business owners, as well as to the larger corporations and as far as providing employment, as far as education goes and for people dependent on social programs for families of lower incomes. Also, in the 1998-99 fiscal year, it seems that we will not have a deficit. We appear to have a balanced budget. As well, in preparation, Mr. Chairman, for division of the territories, it is quite predictable that this will become a reality and we will have our own separate governments. Our current government is preparing for division in the coming years and to be well prepared budget-wise. I see this action as being very wise because it will be beneficial for many people that need assistance. Also at this time there does not appear to be, Mr. Chairman, in the budget and in the north, the vital capabilities. Sometimes in the private sector, Mr. Chairman, certainly jobs are created by the smaller businesses, by private corporations and of course we are in support of the smaller businesses because they create employment.

The mining industry is also another endeavour that we support because, of course, they provide employment. However, in this document I do not see, Mr. Chairman, very much relating to the sale of furs, skins and pelts. I have not seen any mention of the economic potential regarding trapping and private arts and crafts. There has been no mention directly in the budget as far as arts and crafts and fur sales go. This also applies to the fishing industry within the communities. Both over here and within our own communities in the east, there are many people including Inuit and Qablunaat who try to maintain a living by selling fish commercially. As we are most aware, we the government, want to see especially the federal Cabinet support the individual who is providing for himself, who is independent and less reliant on social programs, who is able and willing to try to provide his own income by trapping, selling furs, carvings and by selling fish commercially. This is also another means of providing independence. I do not see very much of this in the budget. Be it hunting, trapping, through fishing commercially, a person can be independent and therefore this results in a happier, more content person or persons.

When Inuit people become of a mature age, too often they end up having to rely on social programs and this causes a low morale. If there are ways we can alleviate these problems by including the sale of furs, the sale of fish, by carvings, many of these people with these types of work are people that have elected us as their MLAs. Whether they are independent fisherman, commercially or hunters and trappers, these are members of the public that have voted us in. I think too often we forget about them. There are many people such as hunters and trappers here in the Northwest Territories and people in the carving industry, as well as fishermen who sell fish commercially. We have to remember these people and the Minister, Mr. Todd, in his own riding of Rankin Inlet and Whale Cove, there are many people who do this type of work as there are in my community, people who are willing to try and remain independent by means of hunting and trapping. Although the furs sales and the prices of pelts have decreased drastically, the same goes with carving sales.

Many people have to travel and remain out on the land for many days to fish commercially. They enjoy this kind of employment, even if they are not educated. They enjoy fishing, trapping and carving. They know how to do these skills well. They are already knowledgeable in doing this type of work. This is what they want to do. So my question to the Minister is this, in what ways within the 1998-1999 fiscal year, can we as a government, provide some sort of assistance? We should give recognition to these independent people. While not very educated, they are able to provide for themselves by means of hunting, trapping and fishing. They are able to provide for themselves independently. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (Translation ends)

Well, Mr. Chairman I think it would be perhaps more appropriate when Mr. Kakfwi's budget comes up that Mr. Ningark ask these detailed questions and I am fairly confident that Mr. Kakfwi can clearly demonstrate what kind of resources are available.

I think to make a general comment if you look at the overall budget, Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development get somewhere around 8.5 percent. To make some comparison, Transportation gets 7.4, Housing Corporation gets 8.4, Justice gets 6.4, MACA gets 9.1. So on a ratio basis, it gets its fair share of the budget and I am confident that Mr. Kakfwi should be able to answer that once we get to the department. I just do not have the detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is running out. Mr. Chairman, I recognize what is in the budget statement. It has to be done. It is good. I agree with what the Minister and his staff have put into it, the effort they put into the program, the new policies that they announced on the budget session. I recognize the fact that we will hopefully have a balanced budget. In fact, we anticipate according to the Minister, there will be a small surplus.

I recognize that we are trying to help out the mining industry. This is where we hire people. Natilikmiot people have been very appreciative, the Kitikmeot Inuit Association and other organizations, that we are able to have people from Natilikmiot working for the mining industry.

We have talked about social program spending. We have talked about a National Child Benefit Program. There are many good initiatives here, but I have not seen in any detail what we are willing to do for the trapping industry, the carving industry, the commercial fisherman within the jurisdiction having those people in their own right, in their own way, earning their own money. In essence, we do not have to spend as much in the area of social programs for them. We do not have to spend too much money in education because they are already educated in those areas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. There was a Member who wished to speak, but we will not mention the name of the Member. I will recognize Mr. Steen at this time.