Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Debates of Jan. 29th, 1998
Topics
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, would the Minister then agree that it would be safe to say that the RCMP, if they require documents, either through requisition or seizure that this could not take place without the knowledge of the Financial Management Board?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
John Todd Keewatin Central
I will ask Mr. Voytilla to answer that. He is far more versed in this, than I am. I want to make sure that we give you an accurate process that we undergo in these fraudulent cases. Mr. Voytilla.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Voytilla.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
Voytilla
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we do is provide the RCMP with the Auditor's report and all of the associated background information that we have complied, so that they have full access to the documents we have put together. In addition through their own investigation, they might ask for additional information and that would be provided to them.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Presuming an individual had a concern or complaint that involved contractual procedures, would this individual take the concern or complaint to the Financial Management Board or would they approach the appropriate department first?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
John Todd Keewatin Central
I wonder, before I answer that question if I could get a little more clarity. Are you talking about an individual who may have had a concern or the government who may feel there has been a fraudulent act occurred? I am a little unclear. Maybe you could just spell out the question, if I may, Mr. Chairman?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The government or the public, Mr. Steen?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
January 28th, 1998
Page 421
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Obviously, regardless, whether it was the government that was concerned or whether it was an individual who was concerned., would the Financial Management Board be made aware of the concern and would they be asked to pursue the concern?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Voytilla.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 421
Voytilla
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it was the RCMP who were conducting their investigation, it would be
fully up to them which organization in the government they went to for information. They would probably seek information from multiple sources. They would be under no obligation because it is their investigation they are conducting to necessarily keep the Financial Management Board Secretariat apprised of all of the inquiries they were making of various departments. That is their investigation. They would manage and handle it.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for an investigation to take place in a department, whereby papers are seized or requested by the RCMP? Would it be possible that the Financial Management Board would not be aware of this or is it a policy of the Financial Management Board that they have the departments or the employees make them aware of anything of that nature?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Voytilla.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
Voytilla
Mr. Chairman, if the investigation was something that came to the notice of a department or any public official, they are obligated by our own internal rules to advise the Comptroller General, myself of their concerns. Then I am obligated to initiate a review or an investigation as the case may be. However, if the RCMP are conducting their own review, and it is an issue that has not come to the attention of a public official or the Comptroller General, then the RCMP could very well go to a department, through their court issued authorities, seize documents, obtain information that the government itself or the FMBS or the Comptroller General or FMB would not have any knowledge of.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen, you have one minute.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let us be clear here. The RCMP could not conduct an investigation whereby they acquire documents or seize documents without that particular department having a responsibility to inform the Financial Management Board, is that correct?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Voytilla.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
Voytilla
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to make that clear, if the RCMP was conducting an investigation and the public officer had no knowledge as to the nature of the investigation and it was simply as seizure or request for information from the RCMP, then no, he would not be under any obligation to report that because he is not aware of any activity or any suspicion of activity that he would be able to report on. Just the fact that the RCMP asked for some information or seized some documents, would not require that officer to report that to the Comptroller General or the Financial Management Board.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Your allotted time period for questioning is up. I will see if there are any other Members who wish to ask questions. Total operations and maintenance. Mr. Ootes.
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre
Thank you. To follow up on that line of questioning. I believe the Minister said that they were investigating 15 or so fraud cases in the past two years. Could he tells us how many have been resolved?
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 422
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Todd.