Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry, for clarification that was Bill 10, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 1998.

Mr. Arlooktoo could you do that again because as I understand you did say Bill 9, Loan Authorization Act, 1998-99, which is not ready for second reading. Second reading of bills. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Bill 10 has had second reading and accordingly, the bill stands referred to the committee.

Second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1998-99; Committee Report 02-13(5); Committee Report 03-13(5); Committee Report 04-13(5); Committee Report 05-13(5); Tabled Document 15-13(5) and Tabled Document 19-13(5). With Mr. Ningark in the Chair.

Thank you. I would like to call the

committee to order. We have a number of items under consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. I need instruction from Mr. Barnabas.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee wishes to consider Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1998-99; Committee Report 02-13(5); Committee Report 03-13(5) and will continue with MACA and Public Works and Services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas. As recommended by Mr. Barnabas, we will deal with Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1998-99; Committee Report 02-13(5); Committee Report 03-13(5) and will continue with MACA and subsequently, Public Works and Services. Do we have agreement?

Agreed.

Thank you. We will do this after a break. Thank you.

--Break.

I would like to call the committee back to order. We are dealing with community monitoring and evaluation in committee. 1998-99 main estimates of Municipal and Community Affairs. We are on page 4-11, community operations. Before we get into that discussion, I would like to read a ruling from yesterday.

Point of Order

I would like to provide a ruling on the point of order raised by the Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko, on February 9, 1998. I indicated when the Member for Mackenzie Delta raised his point of order that the proper time to have raised it was when the motion was ruled in order and deemed not debatable, as Citation 321 of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition states and I quote:

A point of order against procedure must be raised promptly and before the question has passed to a stage at which the objection would be out of place.

However, at the time of raising his point of order, I indicated that I understood his concern and that I would take it under advisement and provide comment at a later date.

In reviewing the matter, I considered the procedures used for the review of the appropriations commonly known as main estimates or budget review. Firstly, however, I would like to remind Members of the circumstances that gave rise to the Member's point of order. During consideration of the activity summary community monitoring and evaluation under the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, the Member for Thebacha proposed the following motion:

I move that the total operations and maintenance estimates for the activity community monitoring and evaluation under the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in the amount of $924,000 be approved.

I ruled that motion in order and was advised at that time it was not debatable. In reviewing our budget process for committee of the whole and in consultations with other jurisdictions regarding the rules and procedures, I found that the motion was, indeed, debatable. I would like to indicate, however, the motion itself was in order and was subsequently carried and now stands as an order or decision of the House. Although the Chair may have erred in treating the motion as not debatable, the committee's decision will stand.

I think it is important to clarify for the Members the effect of the actions taken in the committee of the whole when details of the departmental budgets are being considered. When in committee of the whole, the Chair calls the individual activity summary. It is called by the Chair in the following manner and as an example, I would use the activity that was the subject of the motion by the Member for Thebacha.

Page 4-10 community monitoring and evaluation, operation and maintenance, total operations and maintenance $924,000.

I have checked the unedited Hansard and this is indeed, the exact wording that was used for that activity and for every other activity called. I have researched this matter and I have found that the effect of this statement by the Chair is technically a motion that needs the majority support of the committee of the whole. The will of the committee is expressed by the agreement of the majority of the Members when the dollar amount for each activity is called. Once the committee, through the Chair, is satisfied that agreement has been reached, then technically, that activity has been concluded.

The effect of the Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger's motion, was to put the question to the committee rather than relying on a voiced agreement. Whether it was voiced agreement or a more formal vote, both methods are valid approaches. I hope that clarified the procedural options that are available to the House for the review of the appropriations.

I think it is, therefore, important that all Members understand the significance and importance of the agreements that are being given when reviewing the departmental budgets. I would also like to advise that once an activity has been agreed to by the committee, it is, indeed, approved. If a Member wishes to return to the activity, it will now require unanimous consent.

I would like to make it clear that I and my colleagues who Chair committee of the whole will apply our rules and procedures in a manner that provides all Members the opportunity to consider the matter before the committee for discussion. I can assure you that your Chairs will apply the Rules and Procedures so as not to favour one Member over another. Everyone will be fairly and equally treated under the Rules and Procedures. Thank you.

--Applause

Before we review the matter at hand, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if she wishes to bring in the witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I would.

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee? The honourable Minister will bring in the witnesses. Agreed?

Agreed.

Thank you. I would like to call the committee back to order before we begin. For the record, Madam Minister, please introduce witnesses to the committee.

To my left is my deputy minister, Penny Ballantyne, and to my right is Mr. Vern Christensen, my assistant deputy minister, and also to the far right is Chris Keeley, director of finance.

Thank you, Madam Minister and welcome to the committee. We are dealing with 1998-99 main estimates activity summary on page 4-11, community operations, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $10.756 million. Agreed? Mr. Ootes.

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not think it is in my nature to punish anybody or to penalize anybody so that was not a fair statement from the Member. I will ask my assistant deputy minister to answer his questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Christensen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is undertaking a municipal financing review in collaboration with the NWT Association of Municipalities. One of the objectives of the review is to look at any of the inequities communities feel there are in our municipal funding provisions. As a result of that review, we expect there will be some recommendations coming forward that the department will be able to act on to address certain issues.

One of the issues which has been identified does relate to the contracting of services within a community and how we fund communities. In the case of Rae-Edzo, it is my understanding that we do, in fact, provide a full fleet of mobile equipment to the community as provided by our mobile equipment program, and we fund Rae-Edzo consistently with other communities. We do believe though that there are certain unique features of the community of Rae-Edzo that may not be properly accounted for.

Our staff is meeting with the hamlet and has been meeting with the hamlet. As we mentioned yesterday in the Assembly, we have undertaken to take stock of the situation and see if there is a need for some interim funding to the communities to deal with the particular circumstances in the short run. In the long run, our plan would be to address the concerns in a more fundamental way through some amendments to our funding provisions that would come out of the municipal financing agreement. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you. Madam Minister.