This is page numbers 801 - 846 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Deputy minister, would you please care to explain the options?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Lovely

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This options paper resulted from, I would say, at least a dozen draft discussion papers that were discussed with deputy ministers. These are not the only options which were considered, but they are the only options that we felt, as deputy ministers, that we could recommend to Cabinet.

The first option was a stand-fast option, which simply was to put all the staff that we could possibly put into the Laing and the Hodgson Buildings, put some capital money into the budget to do code upgrades and drop any leases that are on a month-to-month basis or which expire between 1997 and 1999. That was the cheapest option and it was one that was not recommended because of the potentially negative impact on the market.

Option two was to sell both the Laing and S.M. Hodgson Building and lease them back for ten to 20 years. Sell a variety of other office space in town and probably be in the same situation as we would have been had we simply retained ownership of those two buildings. The increased costs that were associated with this one over option number one were the increased lease costs.

Option number three was to sell the Laing Building and the Hodgson Building, to put a caveat on the Laing Building that it could not be used for government office space, to lease back the Stuart Hodgson Building for a period of ten to 20 years and to sell a variety of other properties around town as indicated in the office space plan. The reason that the Stuart Hodgson Building was recommended for sale and lease back was because of the existence of the government's main computer centre in the building. It was felt that was the building which had the most obvious lease back value.

In the end, Cabinet did not approve a variation of the third option. It indicated that the Stuart Hodgson Building should be retained as a government-owned building given the specialized nature of it, sell the Laing Building with a caveat and to extend long-term leases and sell some other properties. Those are the three options that were submitted. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could you tell me at what time these options were put forth to Cabinet?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

It was submitted to Cabinet on July 31st. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the selling of the Laing and Stuart Hodgson Buildings with a lease-back cost arrangement. Was that item ever discussed with the Denendeh Development Corporation regarding looking at options where there were meetings held on that particular item?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am told that this option two, the sale of the Laing Building and the SMH Building, was discussed in general terms with our superintendent. The Department of RWED was also involved in those discussions. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding option two, I believe it is URBCO and the Denendeh Development Corporation had done extensive work in which there were different scenarios put forth to this government. Back in August they were under the understanding that option two was going to be the scenario that was going to go. At what time did they decide to cancel out option two and three, if in July and August that option was still on the table?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the document was given forward to Cabinet on July 31st. On August 14th the Cabinet reviewed this document and decided to go with option three at that time. In January, last month, the final decision was made with a different variation of option number three. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the aboriginal component, looking at the real estate market in Yellowknife, which the Gwich'in and Inuit believe the Denendeh Development Corporation and other aboriginal groups have shown an interest in looking at the possibility for acquiring real estate in Yellowknife and looking at getting into landlords and looking at long-term leases such as what happened in the case of the Lahm Ridge Tower. It always comes to the conclusion that they put all the work, sweat and effort into developing proposals, options, talking to consultants and looking at the options, at the end of the day being led down the garden path where they presume one thing at the start of the proposal, and then are told a couple months later, sorry, guys, it is off the table. If it took this government a matter of days to work out a lease with regard to Lahm Ridge Tower, why is it taking the aboriginal groups so long for them to acquire lease arrangements with this government in Yellowknife? Why is there a difference between one group and the other? Why is that?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was not aware, personally, about the Denendeh Development Corporation's unsolicited proposal until about three weeks ago. I was not aware that there were meetings going on with regard to the Laing Building. The scenario that developed and the final decision by Cabinet to propose for the sale of Laing Building is based on the work that the DDC had already done. I do not think it is fair that they were not taken into consideration at all. There are other aboriginal corporations and groups that are interested in the Laing Building, as well, other than DDC and the Gwich'in. How do you accommodate them, as well? That is something that we had to deal with in Cabinet. The final decision is that, yes, the Laing Building is the Government of the Northwest Territories' own asset, over which we have control to sell or lease. This is the only building that we have that type of control over. In this case, it took a long time but the decision was made last January to go ahead and sell it.

During the summer, the officials of Public Works and Services had general discussions with DDC, but they did not have the authority to sell the building at that time. The authority was not given at that time. It only happened in January. These are all preliminary general discussions of possible proposals. It is up to a proponent to try to convince Cabinet to go for their proposal at that time but it never did materialize. It was worked into the overall Yellowknife general plan for the office plan. That is how it was handled. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your time is up, Mr. Krutko. I have Mr. Roland, Mr. Ootes and Mr. Krutko. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One question, depending on the answer. When the original owner came back for extending his lease November 30, 1995, he was told, or the department said, no, we cannot extend the lease because of the situation. Now a year and a half later, July 30, 1997, there is agreement that it can go ahead. During that time it went from a month-to-month lease. My question is, if the original lease ended with an agreement to extend, two options were five-year and five-year, but there is no talk mentioned of a month-to-month. Is this an actual lease extension if, in fact, the options were not exercised when the date of the original lease ended? It is a month-to-month until that time. Can the Minister clarify that for me? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is between the two parties to agree on a month-to-month basis. Even though it goes to two years or more, the department had a legal opinion that we could still exercise the lease extension. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have considering asset management, 1998-99 main estimates, activity summary. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going back to the timing, again, and it is important, Mr. Chairman. I did not catch correctly what the Minister said when the office plan document was sent to Cabinet. Did he state that the office plan was forwarded on July 31st to Cabinet Members?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.