This is page numbers 801 - 846 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I understand these extensions were initiated at the same time.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I am told the extension of Northern United Place was in the spring of 1997. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the Department of Public Works in regard to aboriginal organizations, the BIP process or contracts, there seems to be a real question about which organization represents who. The Denendeh Development Corporation has membership of about 14,000, the Gwich'in Development Corporation of almost 2,500 people and then the Inuvialuit Development Corporation who represent constituents that are claims beneficiaries. Why is it there seems to be such a problem within Public Works to associate with who has authority over who or who has to represent everybody as a whole? In regard to Lahm Ridge Tower, you look at the context of two individuals, but in regard to interests of aboriginal organizations where they represent, in the case of the Denendeh Development Corporation, which is made up of all the bands in the Northwest Territories, of almost 14,000 people, why is there such a discrepancy in regard to who represents who, yet when it comes to Lahm Ridge Tower, we are talking about two individuals? Why is it we talk about affirmative action in this government and we talk about what is happening regarding different aboriginal claims where there are certain sections of the agreements that have to be fulfilled to ensure the aboriginal people get the most economic opportunities available in those areas. Especially when it comes to claims in the Inuit Act, Section 35. Why is it this department seems to have such a problem verifying the aboriginal groups have to prove who they are, yet it is not that case with individuals?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is no such problem with this department. What the honourable Member really wants, is he wants DDC to acquire the Laing Building and they have the opportunity to do so now. Finally,

the decision is made to sell the Laing Building, only last month it was decided. Now, the process is in place for the different organizations that want to acquire it, the process is in there to do it. They have the opportunity to do it. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the contract and lease arrangements with this government, we have a variety of organizations, the Metis Development Corporation, DDC, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, Dogrib Development Corporation, so there is a large range of aboriginal development corporations out there. They have money to invest in the Northwest Territories, but I think when it comes to realizing the amount of time, effort and energy they put into developing proposals or looking at investments, they seem to get the feeling that they have to develop their proposals two times as thick as the next guy, because that is the amount of information that is being asked for. They are being put in the position that they put a lot of energy and effort in developing these things, then at the end of the day, being told there was no opportunity for them to look at it.

In regard to the Laing Building or the Stuart Hodgson Building, they had the ability to look for partners in that arrangement, but now are being told, sorry folks, the opportunity that you have, this is what it is now. The terms have changed. Before you were looking at the possibility of buying it, renovating it, then leasing it back. That is out of the picture. The only option you have now is to purchase the Laing Building and you are not allowed to lease it for a number of years, which is going to be a caveat put against it. The scenarios change so drastically, that it makes you wonder exactly how committed are we to aboriginal development corporations in the Northwest Territories, especially from this department.

I think because of the situation that we find ourselves in now in Yellowknife because of office space and everything else, I think it puts a real dim light on the aboriginal organizations to seriously look at the potential of investing in Yellowknife because of the way they have been treated in this latest scenario from the Lahm Ridge deal to where we are going now in regard to the Laing Building. Where before it was feasible, it was practical, it was something they could invest in knowing they would be able to make a business venture out of it which was fair and practical. Where they could have put money up front and made an investment and knowing it was a safe investment. Why is there such a discrepancy between these groups and the other development real estate agents, in the way this government deals with them?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Lahm Ridge Tower situation has nothing to do with the Laing Building at all. It is two totally separate situations altogether. I have explained it over and over again. The decision is made. We should look at what lies ahead of us. Whatever happened in the past, you have to use it. If it is a good decision we should say it, if it is a bad decision, everybody makes mistakes and we try to learn from that. We would like to move forward and to say that the Laing Building is up for sale. DDC, Inuvialuit Development Corporation, Gwich'in Development Corporation, all the different aboriginal corporations have an opportunity to buy this Laing Building. It took a long time to make the decision. The DDC, last July, put a proposal together and gave it to the government saying they were going to buy the Laing Building. It is not that simple for this government to say, okay, we will sell it to you, right there and then. It took some time to look at the overall office plan requirements for Yellowknife. It took some time. Finally, we came up with a decision in January to sell the Laing Building. It took that time. It is not because we do not want to treat the aboriginal development corporations specially. It is the way things turn out and you cannot blame this government for that. It is not really fair to say that. The opportunity is there now that the Laing Building is for sale and the development corporations have a good opportunity now to get their act together and maybe work together. There are so many different groups out there that are interested now. To be fair to all of them, it is going to have to be done through a competitive process. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think to be fair to everybody and the whole idea of aboriginal groups being involved through the competitive process, I think it would have been fair to all the people of the Northwest Territories, and on the aboriginal organizations, that the Lahm Ridge Tower lease renewal should have been put out to competition so that people could all have an opportunity to bid on that amount of office space that this government required. Why was that not done in this case?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am told that there was an existing lease with the Lahm Ridge Investment Company and it was on a holdover and it was renegotiated. The honourable Member mentioned that we could have just dropped that lease and put it out for competitive tender. I am told that we could have done it, but it might have taken a couple of years to try to resolve finding new spaces and so forth, so it would have taken some time. It would have cost us money if we found a cheaper place some place else. This is a decision that was already made. We try to explain it the best we can. In hindsight, we could have done a lot of things differently, perhaps. It is like that in everyday life, but I like to move ahead and move with the decision that we have to make. We have a lot of others things that we have to deal with in this government besides the Lahm Ridge Tower. I would just like to answer like that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a motion.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Proceed with your motion, Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I would like to make a motion that this section, approval, be deleted until all answers are in from the Minister's office that have been promised to the Members of this House.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I am advised that if you want to defer this particular part, not to delete it but to defer it, would you rephrase your motion please?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to defer.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

We will take a five-minute break and have your motion written and translated into Inuktitut. Thank you.

--Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to call the committee back to order. Mr. Krutko, would you read the motion please?

Committee Motion 15-13(5): To Defer Further Consideration Of The Activity Asset Management, Department Of Public Works And Services
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee defer further consideration of the activities, asset management, the Department of Public Works and Services at this time.