This is page numbers 801 - 846 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Lovely

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Yellowknife office space plan was developed over a period of several months because it was such a complex issue. It was felt there was a need to find a way to cushion the impact of continuing changes to the size of the public service. As we move toward division, our need for office space will diminish. We are expecting, once division is completed and two new territories have been created, that the economy will start to rebound. In the meantime, we did not want to do anything to further damage the real estate market by cancelling a lot of leases and pulling ourselves into a lot of owned buildings that needed major capital investments to make them continuing good office space. The reason we went in the direction that we did, and the reason we made the recommendations to Cabinet, was we felt we had to get some of the office space currently on the market off the market. That was the reason for recommending the sale of the Laing Building which would remove 60,000 square feet from the Yellowknife office space inventory immediately. There are two departments that occupy that building, the Executive and the Financial Management Board Secretariat, and it is 60,000 square feet. However, they only require 38,000 square feet of space. It is our intention to go to a call for proposals to accommodate those departments outside of the Laing Building. Over time, we will reduce our inventory by 90,000 square fee, I believe it is by the year 2005. We will do that by dropping leases as they reach their termination. We will do it in a way that is least damaging to the economy. The reality is that, when we take a look at the number of jobs that have been lost as a result of government restructuring and the potential reductions that will continue to occur, they have largely been in Yellowknife. The vast majority of those jobs have been lost from Yellowknife even though there have been

reductions at the community level. I think it is critical to recognize that the health of your capital also has an impact on the health of the rest of the communities in the jurisdiction. If the real estate market is devastated in the capital, the economy of the entire region suffers. This was the reason for selling the Laing Building and eliminating it from the office space inventory. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the Laing Building, I do not believe that by selling it you are taking if off the market. Right now it is not classified as a lease property which is owned by this government. We own it lock, stock and barre. It is no cost to us in regard to leasing. If you lease that building, what you are doing is putting another 90,000 square feet on the market for whoever buys it. If that is what they want to do, that is what they can do. You are increasing the amount which is basically 220,000 square feet right now. Technically you are adding to the problem versus resolving it.

In regard to the question I asked earlier, there is a lot of office space in Yellowknife in which, to be fair to all people in the real estate market, there should have been some call for proposals so we can get the best price for the amount of money we spend. If that means someone is going to come in at a price the lease market has right now in which you are getting it for $15 a square foot, instead of paying $35 a square foot; I think the market right now is competitive and people will go that extra mile to get your business. In the case of the Laing Building, there were interested parties who took a look at it with the understanding from the Department of Public Works that there were going to be no long-term lease initiatives made. There were meetings held between the Denendeh Development Corporation, yourself and the Minister. You knew there were other interested parties in this building. You are saying, we did it. Yet, you are still planning on looking at savings. There has to be a plan in place where we know exactly the price per square foot of each of these buildings that we are looking at, so we can see exactly what the cost-savings are to this government. We recently approved three office spaces in the Centre Square, the Lahm Ridge Tower, the Northern United Place and the Professional Building. Yet, there are other buildings out there, the Northwest Tower, Bellanca Developments, where there is a lot of vacant office space. I would like to ask the Minister, did they go out for calls for proposals with regard to when they were looking at the Lahm Ridge Tower deal?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Yellowknife office plan was finally approved last month, in January. It was not approved before that. It was still in the development stages. However, during that whole planning stage, by last July, the department knew which office space it would like to retain. There was not a call for proposals back then to look for new office space because the Yellowknife office plan had not been approved. It was approved only last month. Since that time, the department has been initiating the work to go to a request for proposals, after the decision was made, which was last month. The intention is to go out to the public to see what kind of costs we could have out there. We need to do that.

In the case of the Laing Building, there is a caveat. The decision of Cabinet was to sell the Laing Building. There was a caveat not to lease it back to the government. What, in fact, that does, is take 60,000 square feet off the market immediately. What we will be doing is going out for leasing 36,000 square feet to replace what we lost for FMBS and the Executive. By doing that, it will avoid a major investment of about $3 million on the part of the government to retrofit the Laing Building. We will have to put in new elevators and an air handling system. It is quite a substantial amount of renovation that we will avoid by doing that. It will also reduce some of the surplus which is already out there. The government will reduce its remaining inventory by quite a substantial amount. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your time is up, Mr. Krutko. We are dealing with asset management. Mr. Arlooktoo.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Chairman, I want to clarify the statement made by Mr. Krutko that there were meetings between the Denedeh Development Corporation, the deputy minister and the Minister at that time. I want to clarify, as I was the Minister then, that there were no meetings between these parties regarding the possible sale of the Laing Building. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My concern is, although this government is recognizing the economic downturn, I see a couple of inconsistencies. One, for example, is ,say, for whatever reason, the Laing Building goes on the market and you take it off and, say, you cannot lease it back to the government. It does not mean that space is not available. It is there for the rest of the City of Yellowknife and people looking for office space. It is still there. Another issue, and this is coming mainly from my riding, is this government's sudden concern for economic downturn in communities. In my case, this is ten, 12 years too late. When the community of the Beaufort Delta was booming at 7,000 to 8,000 people, I do not recall a plan of the government to help out businesses that had investments in that community, but we are going at it with this.

The question I have for the Minister is, was there a plan? I know this goes back a long way, but could you give me that information? Was there a plan by the government to deal with the downturn in the Beaufort Delta economy to help out businesses that were running at the time?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, this is the type of information that requires some research. We will try to find this information. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are not talking about then. We are dealing with the activity that we are looking at now. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had to put a plug in for Inuvik. Mr. Chairman, the concern is, I asked the question earlier. I made reference to the Lahm Ridge being 45,000 square feet and this government having a surplus of 76,000 square feet. The Minister stated that if we took the two departments in the building and took them out, you would not be able to put them into one area in any of the space available. Could the Minister supply the information, and possibly it has already been asked with the many questions that have gone through since this began? Could the Minister supply the information that would give us the available space, where it is located and what sizes of vacancies they are? For example, in one building you could have 10,000 square feet and another 20,000. That information would be nice to have. The Minister stated earlier that there were pockets of them around, but you could not put either one of these departments into the spaces that were available. Could you come up that information?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have that information but we will need some time to put it together. We will endeavour to provide that as soon as we can. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Asset management. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, for clarification on a couple of questions I have. I heard the department say earlier that the deputy minister and superintendent have signing authority with regard to leases where the size of the budget, in fact, they could commit the government to long-term leases. My question is, under the Financial Administration Act, there are limitations as to how much liability this government could have at any one time. Would there not be a requirement from the departments to meet with the Financial Management Board or the rest of the Cabinet to ensure there was room for this long-term liability before anything was signed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the case of Lahm Ridge Tower, the deputy minister consulted with the FMBS to get the parameters laid out. In this case the budget was already there for Lahm Ridge Tower. We needed the 42,000 square feet that was there. If we did not have it there, we would have had it somewhere else. The budget has already been approved and it is there for that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 16th, 1998

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am not arguing whether the budget was there or not. The budget would have been there for only one year anyway. We would have been talking about future budgets and commitments of this government. I am under the impression that at least the Finance Minister, the Minister of Education and the Minister of Transportation were involved, as well as the Minister of DPW, at an early stage as to who was going to use the facilities. Who was involved in the approval?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the deputy ministers were involved in the renegotiation of this lease and the Ministers were not involved in the arrangement for negotiating the new lease or the approval of it.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I am not referring to the negotiations. I am referring to the identified needs of the departments. Obviously, the Finance Minister would have been involved at a very early stage to ensure there was room under the limitations for a long-term lease. Is that correct?