Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The extra money, as I indicated earlier, was to try to deal with the deficiencies in the base in areas where the Department of Justice has had shortfalls before. The $983,000 that was approved in supplementary number three would cover off the current year's shortfall, and the $1.6 that we are proposing for the next supplementary would be added to the base for the next time around and onwards.
Debates of Feb. 18th, 1998
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 912
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. With that, we will take about a 15-minute break. Thank you.
--Break.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 912
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Welcome back. I would like to call the committee back to order. I hope the little break did some justice to Members. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all I would like to commend the department for undertaking the Outpost Camp Program for those inmates who are not serious offenders or I presume, not repeat offenders. I think it would be very effective in particular in the younger age group, whereby we do not have repeat offenders.
My question is in regard to the directorate. It says the division is responsible for monitoring goals and objectives of the department. My question, Mr. Chairman, is regarding the cutbacks in police services and the different justice programs that we have taken on. I wonder if the department could give me a short rundown on their opinion as to the monitoring aspect of it, whether or not what effect reduced RCMP presence in the small communities in particular, what effect that is having and how the communities are responding? As well as how the communities are accepting community justice committees? In particular, I would be concerned in my region in the Beaufort. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the police contract, the current value of the contract on the law enforcement side is over $28 million. I would have to ask one of my officials to give historical information on whether or not there have been cutbacks in recent times. Could Ms. Sanders give an update on that?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Ms. Sanders.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Sanders
I stand to be corrected but I do not think we have had any detachment cutbacks just recently. It is something that it is always a possibility when financial times are tight. I think what is happening, is not that we have cut the RCMP back but they are feeling the crunch from Ottawa as well. Some of their expenses have gone up and that kind of thing. What they have tried to do is make a priority to keep the small detachments open because they know you need to have some kind of presence. They have done their best to do that. More and more, they are also trying to share resources by having administrative tasks performed, what they are calling a hub basis. Every community may have an officer, but they may not do all the administrative functions, those kinds of things to centralize that a little bit within regions.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen, you may want to clarify the question. That is up to you, Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, the vision of the department was safe and secure communities, supported by an accessible, responsive and effective justice system. Under the directorate, it suggests they monitor how they achieve these goals. Now I am not suggesting whether the department cut back on the RCMP services or whether the feds did it, but the point is, it was cut back. For instance, Sachs Harbour used to have two police. There is nobody there now. I am not aware of Holman Island, whether Holman Island ever had a permanent police officer but I understand for a short term they did. He is gone. Paulatuk is the same situation. We are reducing programs to these communities and replacing them with other programs. What I want to know is, how effective does the department see it? In their opinion, are we achieving our goals?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue of how the Department of Justice monitors our vision of safe and secure communities through the different goals is one that we take seriously. The member gives some examples of where the RCMP has had reductions in actual personnel from communities. I would say that is not a unique case. I personally do know of other communities where there is a shortage and it is not necessarily because of cutbacks. It is more having to do with forced-growth, increasing costs, but at the same time the actual budgets are not keeping up with the cost of doing business. Even though you do not see any reductions in the amount of money, the budget is not keeping up with actual costs.
I do know the Department of Justice has regular discussions with RCMP on how the money there could be best used. The deputy minister gave some examples earlier about the Department of Justice giving suggestions on possible areas for increased or decreased work. More recently when I met with the RCMP brass here in Yellowknife, we discussed having more cooperation in dealing with the finances, the actual administration of finances and exchanging resources or expertise there.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
February 17th, 1998
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, does the department have statistics as to whether or not crime has increased in the communities after the RCMP left? Do they have statistics showing whether serious crime has increased? Has crime in general increased? Has small time crime increased? Do they have those kinds of figures? Also, have the programs we have been using, like community justice committees, been effective in reducing the amount of crime in the communities? That is what I am talking about.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would say that probably in all cases if the RCMP member has left, there is little way of having an accurate picture, whether or not crime has gone up in that particular community. Crime statistics is something that, I guess, could be influenced by several factors, such as who reports the acts, what is reported and the monitoring, whether the department knows if crime levels or statistics go up in particular communities when the RCMP moves out of town. I guess the short answer is we do not know.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 913
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Mr. Chairman, can I ask the Member to repeat that question.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Yes, I will allow that. Mr. Steen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, my question was if they are not monitoring the activities, the success or effectiveness of the existing programs we have, including the effectiveness of those programs, my question was, what are we monitoring because it says here they are monitoring the goals and objectives of the department.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was responding to a question specifically to whether crime statistics do go up when the RCMP officer leaves. Now in terms of general statistics for a community, I know that the numbers are kept for how many charges are laid in a particular community. We are required to do that. The community justice committee does have numbers also on how many referrals they receive to their particular group. The RCMP, of course, keeps their own numbers, so there is monitoring. The numbers are there, but we do not have them here with us right now.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. With that I thank Mr. Steen. His time is up. Directorate is on the list. Are there other Members who have not spoken to this particular activity wish to speak? If not, then I will recognize Mr. Krutko. Thank you.