This is page numbers 505 - 534 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister inform us then, as these discussions are going, he mentioned yesterday some of the process involved in the negotiations, some of the different steps taken into achieving signing some of these agreements or sub-agreements. When would this Assembly as we know it look at some of these agreements or how would that process be done?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as the sub-agreements are being reached by the Northwest Territories negotiators at the table, these sub-agreements will be coming to me, as the ministry, and I will have to have it go by Cabinet for approval. Once it is approved by Cabinet, then we will inform the Members about their arrangements in the sub-agreement. As the sub-agreements come forward, they become part of the agreement-in-principle so there are about 32 different items that are on the table for the Beaufort Delta. If I am correct, there are about six areas of sub-agreements that have been worked on and been developed at the present time. So we have a long ways to go before we reach an agreement-in -principle. Once that is done, that is the total package, and it will be moved forward so that the public will be aware of the contents. It is some ways down the line. Yesterday we talked about the timing. It is hard to estimate that. There are Members in this House who have been involved in negotiations so it is hard to tell exactly, pinpoint, when this is going to be done. We mentioned somewhere between six months to about a year or 12 months timeframe before this is concluded. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My final question, using the formula financing negotiations that happened in the past, when formula financing between this government and federal government took place, that happened within, for example, FMBS or Finance possibly, but those discussion swent on and an agreement was signed. For example, we saw just recently the old Formula Financing Agreement put on the table quite a bit later, but we were already operating under it. I am just wondering if that is the process that is going to be followed or because this is a new process, there will be a new process developed as well in recognizing the changes that have to occur. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. The honourable Member is asking for a process on how this is going to get done. Again, it is something that is new that we are attempting to do. There is going to be a new financial arrangement that will be negotiated as part of the self-government agreement. I do not know what else to say except that it is going to be something we are working with. We do not know for sure exactly how that is going to eventually happen. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. For the record, I am on page 2-40, activity summary, Aboriginal Affairs, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $2.765 million. I recognize Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just following up on discussion of Mr. Roland, the Minister said that all the funds are put into one pot, and basically it is there for everyone. Is it not true there are funds that flow from Ottawa which are earmarked aboriginal funds in regard to insured health benefits where those funds can only be used for aboriginal people for certain events? I will use an example where when Tl'oondih Healing Program was running, the only monies they were able to allocate or receive was those classified as insured health benefits which were basically earmarked for aboriginal people. On one hand you are telling us that the money is all put into one pot for everybody, but on the other hand, there are certain funds that are only earmarked for aboriginal peoples. Which is it? It is not clear. In regard to certain housing programs that were in place in the past which were designated for aboriginal houses such as the HAP Program, such as that, which flowed from a national program to this government to be delivered on behalf of the aboriginal people by this government. I think it is not clear in regard to the version that everything is put into one pot. We cannot account for it. There is no way of knowing exactly where these monies come from. I think there is a way of monitoring. There are transfer agreements which take place between ourselves and the federal government which clearly states exactly how those funds are supposed to be spent. I would like to ask the Minister, has there been an attempt to break down these funds and to identify those dollars which are classified as national aboriginal programs which this government administers at the present time?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is true that there are two different approaches here. There is the Formula Financing Agreement which is a complicated formula that determines on an annual basis how much the Government of the Northwest Territories receives as a grant from the federal government. This is a general amount that does not really specify whether it is for treaty people or Inuit people. There are other arrangements separate from that, which are transfer agreements or charge back agreements which I am not totally familiar with. I think the host departments, for example Health and Social Services, would have more hands on than we do here in the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. Yes, there have been attempts in the past to try to determine if these funds are for aboriginal people or

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My other question to the Minister is, the aboriginal organizations who are presently in negotiations in regard to self-government, have they been given the opportunity to have access to these agreements that presently exist? Has your department made an attempt to ensure that all this information is available to the aboriginal self-government groups? Are they aware the information is there so when they do establish regimes to look at health, housing or whatever, they are aware these program dollars are there, and they can take that into account when they negotiate their agreements?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the budget is a public document and it lays out what has been determined department by department to be spent in a given year. Part of it is general information available to the public. There have been requests by the aboriginal organizations which are negotiating to come out with a costing of different programs and services. We have requested this costing from the government system. We are still waiting for information in regard to this request for the costing that has been requested by ourselves for the aboriginal organizations. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I was referring to the different national programs that presently exist and the Formula Financing Agreement that is in place and the chargeback arrangements that are presently in place between Indian Affairs in regard to health care and other programs such as that. In regard to the different transfer agreements that are in place, have those agreements been given to the aboriginal groups who are presently negotiating self-government at the present time?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am not aware that organizations have requested these specific transfer agreements, like the health transfer for example, for aboriginal people. I am not familiar whether there was a request or not. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. The reason I ask the question is because I have spoken to the chief negotiator dealing with the Beaufort/Delta self-government negotiations who has stated to me that they have not had access to all the documents that the government presently has in relation to the different arrangements between themselves and the federal government. That is why I raised the question. That is where my question is coming from.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I take that as a general comment. Are there any further questions or comments? Total operations and maintenance, $2.765 million. Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 524

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. Grants and contributions. Page 2-41, details of grants and contributions. Total grants, $225,000. Agreed?