Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Erasmus.
Debates of March 2nd, 1998
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In my opening comments I had indicated that the Yellowknives Dene was a part of the Dogrib Community Services Board and they have absolutely no say in what occurs in their school. Similarly, other members of the Akaitcho Territory First Nations are involved in district education authorities in which they virtually have no say in because they are totally outnumbered. I know that they had wanted to form a district education authority for sometime. Are there any discussions underway now in this area with the Akaitcho Territory First Nations?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Most of the communities in the Akaitcho territory will have their own district education authorities right now, for instance Detah, Lutselk'e, and so on do. Ndilo does not. As the Member is aware, the department has been working with the community on an initiative that will probably culminate in a formation of a district education authority for Ndilo.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister indicate when Lutselk'e and Fort Resolution formed their own district education authority?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
I should just get some clarification from the Member. When I am talking about a district education authority that is one that refers to a community only. Detah has a district education authority. The chair of the district education authority sits as a member on the Dogrib Community Services Board. The same is true for Lutselk'e. The chair for the Lutselk'e District Education Authority sits as a member of the South Slave Divisional Education Council. I just want to make sure that the Member and I are talking about the same thing, so perhaps I can ask the Member if he could clarify his question.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 1st, 1998
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I was using the wrong terminology, usually when I am thinking of a district I am thinking of an area larger than part of a community. I guess what I am talking about is a divisional council then. I know that the Treaty 8, as they used to be called and now they are called Akaitcho Territory First Nations, which includes my constituency of Detah and Ndilo, have been attempting to form their own divisional council for years because they have no say, virtually, in their education. They are totally outnumbered in the three different divisional councils that they are part of. What I would like to know is if there are talks underway for the Akaitcho Territory First Nations to form their own divisional council.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is a real problem with resources and capacity in creating divisional education councils with numbers that are too small. The Education Act was set up in such a way that significant local control of schools can be exercised at the community level. The requirement for some of the overhead, superintendents and the accounting functions that are performed at the divisional education council level, mean that it is fiscally very difficult to support the creation of new smaller divisional education councils. There is a difference in the per capita cost to run a divisional education council right now, more that $2,000 per student, between the larger education councils and the smallest ones. It is a situation where we cannot afford to set up any more divisional education councils and that was one of the reasons that the act does give so much control to local bodies.
One of the problems always is, Mr. Chairman, that when you get a local district educational authority they sometimes do not understand the overhead cost and feel that perhaps they are not getting a fair share of the overall funding passed on to them at the community level. That is always going to be a challenge for the education councils to deal with. If the Member is asking if we can find a way to create another divisional education council, I would have to make sure that he understands that the only way to do that is to significantly increase the pupil/teacher ratio and I do not think any of us want to see that happen.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are one page 9-6, operations and maintenance, total operations and maintenance, $5.284 million. Are there any further questions on this? Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for his information. However, what I asked him was, are there currently discussions underway with the Akaitcho Territory First Nations?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The discussions that are underway are with the district education authorities in terms of their approach to governments and not on an approach that would form another divisional education council. There are discussions with nearly all of the communities the Member refers to.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister indicate who is responsible for hiring of the staff in the individual schools? Is it that particular community or the district education authority, whatever it is called or is it the overall council, for instance, say in Fort Resolution for the school there, is it the authority from there that decides who is going to teach in their own school or is it the overall South Slave Divisional Council over which they have virtually no say?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the divisional education councils have the overall authority. They generally set the parameters and then the district education authorities or the local bodies are typically the ones that do the interviews and decide on which teachers to hire. It is not always the same in every single community because it will depend on how much authority each community has negotiated with the divisional education council.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, I have very great difficulty with this. If you are totally outnumbered on the divisional council, you cannot negotiate very much. I know that this past summer there were some very serious concerns in one of the schools where the local authority wanted to hire someone and they were not able to. It was because they were not able to negotiate control. We are saying that we are giving control to the local authorities, well, we are not. If they are not big enough to dominate the divisional council, particularly in the case of my constituents who are one small part of a huge community services board, they are totally intimidated and totally out of their league when they are trying to get things. Hopefully, the ministry will look at these types of situations and assist those smaller authorities so they can actually get real control over their schools. I would like to ask the Minister if he could ensure that this does occur?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are happy to work with any community that would like to discuss issues of empowerment, especially when it comes to education. I am surprised to hear the Member's concern because I know I have had more complaints about the power exercised by the district education authorities and how there have been a number of concerns that they, for instance, are making the decisions locally not to hire local people. That has been a concern that has been expressed to me by Members in the past. In general the system works, where the local community is the one in charge of making decisions about who teaches in the community. We are certainly prepared to work with any community to address issues of helping their boards develop. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Vince Steen
Thank you, Mr. Dent. Total operations and maintenance, $5.284 million. Agreed?