Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We believe there is equity across the north when it comes to funding, but because funding is based so much on populations, the larger the school, the bigger their opportunities. For instance in a small school, the teachers are going to be stretched to deliver the program whereas in a large school there may be two classes all day long of just English.

You can have teachers who specialize in a program of English. You may have an opportunity when in the funding, they are funded at the rate of 18.2 teachers to one student. In a larger school, they may be able to put 30 to 36 students in one math class and then shift the funding that would go to the other teacher providing shop or home management programs. It really comes from the economies of scale because they have so many more students, but in terms of funding, smaller schools, obviously, are not going to have the same sort of flexibility because they do not have a big enough classroom size and population to have the same sort of flexibility that a larger school does.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Krutko.

Is the Minister saying there are two different types of education or is it an education for large centres and an education for small centres, where basically the larger centres get everything and the kitchen sink and the people in the small communities, sorry you are too small, you cannot grasp it? You just do not have what it takes, but because we are a larger centre, we will deliver education fairly to everybody else. When it comes to a smaller community, you are basically using a two- criterion system when we take all the schools. We tell the communities take on higher education. Get high schools in your community, so we do not have to send you to the larger centres, but then when it comes to delivering programs such as the small mechanical programs in the school, it is only offered in larger centres.

In the case of Fort McPherson, we have almost 900 people. You are telling us we cannot deliver this program, but people that live in Inuvik, Fort Smith or Yellowknife can deliver it. There are two criteria systems for education here. There is education for the large, rich, remote centres and the outlying communities who are supposedly offering the same level of education to everybody in the Northwest Territories. There is a different process when it comes to the smaller communities when it comes to the context of the department.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not saying there are two levels of education. In fact, the smaller communities in the north, in our formula, have a much lower pupil/teacher ratio than do the larger communities. I thought I had made that clear when I was answering a question from Mr. Enuaraq this session and pointed out in his home community, the pupil/teacher ratio is significantly lower than what is the average across the Northwest Territories.

It is not a question of whether there is a double standard, but in a larger community, you have the opportunity. Where one teacher can take over two classrooms, then the other teacher could be shifted into providing a shop program or some other program. You do not have that flexibility in a small school where one teacher may be teaching 7, 8 and 9 or even broader, in order to make up that classroom size. Even if you have the smallest pupil/teacher ratio, you have one teacher for every 15 students. Let us say, in a small school with 150 students, you may not get the overlap, where you can put so many students together that there is a teacher freed up to offer an elected program. A larger population means you have some economies of scale.

Whether you are looking at the administration of the Northwest Territories government as a whole, there is no way we can divide up the headquarters operation here, because we are dividing into Nunavut and the west. Nobody expects that we can just divide what we have right now and provide the same level of services. There are incremental costs. The smaller you get, the higher the cost it is to deliver the programs. Our formula recognizes that and does provide better assistance to the smaller communities. It can only be stretched so far. The flexibility only goes so far. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell me which communities deliver the shop program in the Northwest Territories?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would have to contact the divisional education councils and ask them that information. I can undertake to do that for the Member, if he would like. I will have to get back to him.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell me what it would take to make it compulsory through the education program right across the territories that the shop program will be part of the curriculum for all schools?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Technically, what it would take is to include industrial arts as part of one of the required courses in the secondary schools directive. Technically, we could say it was a required course in that directive. What we do on an annual basis is review what is in that with the divisional education councils and there is typically some agreement about what courses should be required. This would be technically how we could do it.

In terms of physically making sure the space was available and that there were qualified teachers in every school, I am not sure how we could achieve that. In the short term, Mr. Chairman, that would probably be impossible. Choices are made by the divisional education councils in consultation with district education authorities. If the program is there now, it is because the DEC and the DEA together have decided that it should be. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The criteria and priorities for capital standards are, the first priority is if there is a life, health or safety concern in the facility; the second priority is for space shortfalls; the third priority is for deficiencies in the existing structure; the fourth is for upgrades and the fifth is for technical reasons.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Do you wish to finish your response?

As I heard the Member, he was asking me for what the capital standards and criteria are and I just listed those for him. I believe this project has been moved up one year from where it was in last year's five-year capital plan. Looking at the budget it appears that we have added about $400,000 to the project over what was shown on last year's capital plan. The budget would currently show the initial start on the project with planning in this next budget year some preparatory work and the really serious planning would be in 1999-2000, with actual construction starting in 2000-2001.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. O'Brien.

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department examines the capital project list every year and re-evaluates each capital project based on the criteria because sometimes the ranking changes. As I have said, we have found that the project has, in fact, advanced one year over what was shown last year in the five-year plan. At this point we do not see any way to advance the project for the two years that were requested by the community, but it does fit into the criteria for advancing it one year over where it was initially shown. We have identified the need to increase the budget slightly by more than ten percent of what we had shown previously.

Thank you.