This is page numbers 357 - 395 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was highway.

Topics

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The mandate of the Department of Public Works and Services is to design, construct, acquire, operate and maintain buildings, works and equipment and implement energy efficient projects in buildings and works required for the government to deliver its programs and services, provide a system of specialist services that enhance the efficiency of government departments and make essential petroleum products available for sale to the public where these are not provided by the private sector.

The Standing Committee on Resource Management and Infrastructure reviewed the department's 1999-2002 business plan on November 24, 1998, and the department's draft 1999-2000 Main Estimates on March 21, 1999. Committee concerns during review of the department's business plan centred on the government's contract awarding process, competition with the private sector, proposed retention of the Laing Building, Year 2000 compliance and Nunavut service contracts, incorporation of full cost recovery and a cost-plus in all contracts. These issues continued to concern committee Members during their review of the department's draft Main Estimates.

The draft 1999-2000 Main Estimates showed proposed declines in most programs and activities in comparison to the 1999-2000 business plan projections with the exception of a $5,000 increase in funding for systems and communications. Capital expenditures remain essentially flat with a projected $7,000 or a 0.48 percent decrease from the business plan.

Committee Members noted during the review of the department's draft Main Estimates that a significant portion of the department's overall revenues is the result of computer charge back services to Nunavut. This $2.2 million in projected revenue represents a major portion, or 59.77 percent of the department's projected revenues of $3,681 million. Eventually, the Government of Nunavut will be able to service its own computer needs.

Awarded contracts. Committee Members expressed concern during the business plan review that some contracts were awarded to southern contractors over equally qualified northern contractors. As a result, the committee recommended that clear-cut explanations be given to unsuccessful bidders, and as with the federal government, GNWT officials should be made available to bidders for further discussion. A description of this process and related items were provided to the committee prior to the review of the Main Estimates.

However, in the business plan review exercise, Members were also concerned about the number of contracts that were awarded under the different awarding processes. The committee looked forward to receiving a summary report that details the number and amount of contracts that were awarded as the result of a tender, request for proposal, sole source, or negotiated award process in the past year. This item was addressed prior to review of Main Estimates. In an effort to bring a greater degree of clarity to the contracting issue committee Members requested a briefing on contracting methodology used by this department and other departments.

Competition with the private sector. The committee noted that the government is already competing or is proposing to compete with the private sector in areas of petroleum products, ongoing and real estate development, ongoing and anticipated to escalate. Members pointed out the Laing Building, originally scheduled for sale or demolition, will now be renovated and retained by the government for its own offices. This is likely to contribute to the oversupply of office space in Yellowknife. The committee looks forward to receiving a confidential briefing by the Minister that will answer the Members' concerns regarding the Laing Building and the Yellowknife Office Space Plan.

Conflict of interest guidelines. The committee noted during its review of the department's business plan that many employees are not covered under the current conflict of interest guideline. The current guideline only applies to high-level employees. The committee requested further information about conflict of interest guidelines for all employees. This concern arose from the Inuvik arena project where a non-management PWS employee resigned from the arena project management committee, comprised of municipal, MACA and PWS personnel, to take a managerial position with the consulting firm for the project. The department has addressed the Inuvik arena project issue and suggested that general conflict of interest concerns may be more appropriately redirected to the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Year 2000 compliance. The committee expressed its concern that year 2000 compliance may entail unforeseen consequences despite the ongoing efforts by the government to minimize its effects. Further, committee Members noted that technical personnel should be available during the changeover period to rectify any unanticipated events. The department replied that there would be staff on standby during the changeover period.

Nunavut service contracts. Committee Members were concerned whether full cost recovery plus the standard service fee of 6.5 percent has been and will continue to be incorporated into each Nunavut contract. Further, the committee was concerned about the lengths of the contracts and potential layoffs due to the completion of Nunavut contracts. The department has advised that cost recovery plus a standard service fee of 6.5 percent is incorporated into each Nunavut contract, and the contracts range from six months to two years. As well, there will be no layoffs due to the completion of Nunavut contracts and any staff reductions will be the result of natural attrition. That concludes the committee's report. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. At this time I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services if he would like to bring in witnesses?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I would.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Steen. I would like to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses in. Does the committee agree?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister, could you introduce your witnesses please.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on my right is the Deputy Minister, Mr. Rattray. On my left is Brian Austin, director of petroleum products.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there any general comments regarding Public Works and Services? Mr. Morin.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Public Works and Services used to do all the maintenance in the communities, all of the government buildings, they had a program in place. They had people working for the department in pretty well every community through community empowerment. Some communities have taken over that function. Has there been any review on whether or not the same level of services are available to those buildings? For example, you had a maintenance schedule, you had a formula set up on, let us just use a school, for example. There was a formula set up if you had hardwood flooring in the school, that, that hardwood flooring would be refinished every so many years, let us say five years or whatever it was, and then it would still be a safe flooring for the kids of the school to use. My understanding is, some of the things I am hearing from my communities is that just prior to the transfer, those maintenance budgets were cut a year ahead of time so that they cannot maintain the buildings properly. Has the Minister looked into that? Can the Minister shed any light on that issue?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Minister.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps Deputy Minister Rattray could answer that question.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Rattray.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rattray

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Virtually every community is different. In some of the communities, we have very little involvement now. The contracts are working quite well. Other communities, we continue to have a significant amount of involvement as much in providing support and coaching as well as in planning some of the work. It varies from community to community. We have not done an overall review of the successes or the failures associated with community empowerment. I think we consider ourselves still to be in the very early years of it and all of the communities were anticipating that we were going to maintain some level of involvement for a period of time yet.

In terms of the budgets, as you know, we have had to deal with budget cuts virtually every year since the early 90's, since 1991, so I am not surprised that communities are concerned about the level of funding they have in order to carry out the work. The department is also concerned about the level of funding it has to carry out the work in the remaining communities. This has been an issue for us, but we have, in all cases, turned over the amount of funding that we have available to carry out the work in the community to the community when we have asked them to do work. We have not withheld funding.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Rattray. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Through community empowerment, when the communities take over the work that needs to be done at the community level they normally hire people in the community to do the actual work or they take it on as a municipality or whatever, band council or whoever, and normally before those maintenance people were reporting to a regional person that had qualifications to actually supervise and actually ensure that, that work was being done as well. Now they are reporting to the community councils that are people that run for council. They may or may not have that qualification to oversee that work, so are there any checks and balances or can they draw on DPW to supply that service of checks and balances for their communities?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Minister.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe that the expertise involved would be at the regional level, but I will ask my deputy to confirm that.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Rattray.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rattray

Mr. Chairman, yes, as I mentioned earlier, we do still have a level of technical expertise that we are prepared to share with the communities. In some cases, we draw that from those individuals working in other communities, but we do have some capacity to provide some technical support and guidance in planning and carrying out that work. We always anticipated that we would continue to provide that function, at least for a period of time, while communities became more skilled in the delivery of their own programs. In terms of the long term, again every community is different, so it is hard to generalize on empowerment issues. Each community has its own stage of development and its own strengths and weaknesses. We fill in and try and support to the limit of our resources, as required.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Rattray. Mr. Morin.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know ultimately that Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development are ultimately responsible for the Business Incentive Policy. Does this department still ensure that the Business Incentive Policy is being followed and does it fully support that policy?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Minister.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Member said, the ultimate responsibility is with RWED to monitor the Business Incentive Policy, but I believe the department does have checks and balances to ensure that contractors are asked to comply with the Business Incentive Policy. At the end of the contracts, there are some requirements, that they report any contract proceeds. I am sure the Member is aware of this, but as the contract proceeds, there are requirements for the contractors to report their local employment and local benefits. I will ask the deputy if he wants to add anything to that.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 375

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Rattray, do you have anything to add?

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rattray

I do not have much to add. It is the policy of the government and the Business Incentive Policy is a policy of the government. Our department is one of the principle contracting departments and yes, we do our best to comply with the policy. In doing that, we have ongoing training and support for our own people in ensuring that they understand how the policy is applied and to ensure that they, in fact, are applying it.