Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories resurrect and priorize a Northern Accord proposal before the new millennium. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
In the Legislative Assembly on April 29th, 1999. See this topic in context.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Henry. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. We do not seem to have a quorum, so I will ring the bells to ensure we have a quorum. We now have a quorum. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. The question has been called. To the motion. All those in favour? All those opposed. Motion is carried. Thank you. I will now ask the Minister if he would like to bring in his witnesses.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please escort the witnesses to the witness table. Mr. Kakfwi, would you introduce your witnesses, please.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, on my left, the Deputy Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Joe Handley, and on my right, the new president of the NWT Development Corporation, Mr. Fred Koe.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there any general comments or questions? Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not really have that many general comments, but I do have several questions that come to me from the opening comments, as well as the committee's report, that type of thing. In the Minister's opening comments, he had indicated that they had completed a Protected Areas Strategy. Could the Minister indicate who was involved in developing that strategy?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We started a conference at the beginning of last year where we invited the aboriginal leaders from every major aboriginal organization in the western Arctic to Inuvik. They agreed, in discussions with us, on a process that we would use to develop a Protected Areas Strategy. We also had agreement from these First Nation leaders or aboriginal leaders to invite stakeholders such as the NWT Chamber of Commerce, NWT Chamber of Mines, I believe, the World Wildlife Fund, Ecology North. There
is a list of all the participants at the conference as well as on the working group that we can provide to the Member. We will just get one of the staff to bring it over. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Were there some people or representatives of groups that were involved in this working group and who later dropped out for whatever reason?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
The South Slave Metis Tribal Group, I believe, about two months ago, decided because of wording that was agreed to in the document which were no longer words that they could support, decided to pull out. I am not sure whether there was resistance to proposed wording changes they might have made or whether they had initially agreed to the wording, then changed their mind, but the fact is, there was a public statement from the South Slave Metis Tribal Council to no longer support the particular strategy, but everyone else that was involved from the beginning stuck to the commitments they made and followed through on the process to develop and complete the strategy. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Were there environmental organizations involved in this as well?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did those environmental groups remain in the working group until the strategy was completed?
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, I believe, as I said earlier, I think everyone else that was invited to participate in the development of the strategy from the beginning followed through and stuck with the development of the strategy until its completion. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister indicated that the department has received over 50 inquires from existing manufacturers and numerous companies interested in diamond manufacturing. I am assuming that they are all interested in setting up shop here in the North and that each and every one of them requires some type of assistance or assurances from this government. I am wondering if the department has set up some type of a guideline, criteria that these companies have to follow or to fit into in order to qualify for any assistance from this government. Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we have a paper that outlines the things that the Member has made reference to and would be happy to provide the Members this afternoon with a copy of those.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is this criteria handed out or given to the companies that make these inquiries so they know what they have to do in order to set up shop here? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, yes, we make it available on the request. Where possible, our staff sit down and have discussions especially with companies and business people who are very seriously interested and want to have some detailed presentation and a chance to ask questions. The answer to the question is yes.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has this information been shared with the city? I understand that the city also gets a lot of inquiries from companies. Apparently the city is not aware that there is an established set of guidelines. At least, the person I was speaking to was not aware of it. What I am wondering is whether this information has been shared with the mayor's office or whoever, Economic Development. I believe they have an economic development officer over there. Has it been shared with them? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the mayor's office is aware of this policy that we have and copies have been made available to the mayor's office. As far as I know, we have provided the information and shared it with the city. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, could the Minister commit to checking to see if they do have it and if they do not, would they please provide it to them?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Further questions? Your time is up, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Henry.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister in the House earlier today and again in his opening remarks informed the House that he had appointed new board members to the NWT Development Corporation. Is the Minister free to
announce the names of those members? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The new members of the board of this morning are Mr. Harry Elias of Inuvik, Ms. Liz Wyman of Yellowknife, and Mr. Pat Ekpakohak of Holman Island. They joined Ms. Denise Yuhas of Fort Smith, Mr. Larry Firth of Fort McPherson, Mr. Eric Menicoche of Fort Simpson, Ms. Joyce Stewart of Hay River, and Mr. Danny McNeely of Norman Wells as the very new board of directors for the Northwest Territories Development Corporation.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There have been concerns brought to myself, and I believe I have heard it from other MLAs regarding the loan guarantees that have been initiated for players in the diamond industry. The concerns that were brought to me, that the government went out on a limb in some of these instances. Could the Minister start by telling us how much is the total amount of guarantees that his department has put in place to assist the creation of a diamond industry in the North? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are done largely through the Financial Management Board Secretariat and so the question properly goes to the Minister of Finance, Mr. Dent.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I certainly understand that the Minister of the Financial Management Board would be aware of those figures. I believe Mr. Kakfwi's department has the lead in this group that assists the diamond industry in procuring these amounts of money. I had an anticipation that the Minister would be aware of the amounts of money that the department had committed. Maybe this question would be still appropriate. From the perspective of, the Minister has mentioned that he is looking at two other potential groups that wish to start. I think it would be important that the Minister, as the lead Minister, would be aware of those numbers because it would be important for the ministry to know that those amounts were not being exceeded and that the public of the Northwest Territories' interest were being protected. Could the Minister at least tell me what protections are in place to protect the interest of the public funds under those guarantees? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is true that I am the lead Minister in regard to dealing with proposals regarding value-added activities in diamonds in the Northwest Territories. As far as the proposal is concerned, the component that deals with loan guarantees that are required by these proposals are dealt with almost exclusively by the Financial Management Board Secretariat, and so it is the Minster of Finance who deals with the details of it. What is being required so far is one for Sirius Diamonds that says we are providing a loan guarantee of up to, I think presently, about $2.5 million. It is all properly secured through the Financial Management Board Secretariat. The total loan guarantee can increase over the next few years, as required, but it will completely be no longer required, I believe, in five years. I believe if the chair allows, the Minister of Finance could provide more detail if it is required by the Member.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Would the Minister of the Financial Management Board be in a position to address this issue? Mr. Dent.
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Yes, Mr. Chairman. The loan guarantee has been approved to Sirius Diamonds, as the Minister has said. The amount initially is up to $5 million with a potential for increase to $10 million. Arctic Diamonds was approved for loan guarantees up to $3.3 million, Detah Cho for up to $5 million. These loans are only approved. The only one that has to date been implemented is the one for Sirius when a memorandum of agreement has been drawn up and approved. This is drawn up by the Government of the Northwest Territories solicitors, and it sets out all of the terms under which the government will provide the guarantees. They are quite stringent. They fall just short of requiring a first-born son, but they are extremely stringent in how they are set out to protect the interests of the government. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe this is the type of assurance that the people in the territories need to know, that it is not just a free-for-all. I thank the Minister for those comments. Moving on, Mr. Chairman, to the forest management. This government spends tremendous amounts of money each year in fire protection and fire control. I am wondering if the Minister could identify, over the years, of how much marketable timber has been saved by the amount of dollars that has gone into this area? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not know that we have the capacity to do that. As Members are aware, we do allocate a certain number of dollars every year to put into forest inventory, that is to do surveys on assessing the potential in different parts of the North such as the Liard River, the Slave River, and other parts of the North where timber harvesting is being suggested or being carried out. We have probably just a very rough guess at what the market value of the forest inventory up and down the Mackenzie Valley is. We could take a stab at figuring how much of it actually goes up in smoke every year and therefore, over a number of years. I say, I would only be guessing at it. Thank you.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe it was last year, I had worked along with my colleague from Hay River to assist some entrepreneurs to obtain some permits to do some logging. I believe the name of that organization was Pattersons and it had been recognized as being very productive in creating jobs in the territories. I recall at that time it was extremely
difficult to get permits to get areas accessible to assist in creating jobs and getting at this lumber. Could I ask the Minister for an update from the perspective, are there areas where timber stands are available for cutting? Are there areas that have been identified for entrepreneurs such as the people I talked about available for production? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we continue to do forest inventory each year. Sometimes we have difficulty with operators wanting to go into a specific area. We have two kinds of challenges. One is whether the inventory has been completed in that area, and second, whether timber has been assigned to another operator. In the case you speak of, it was a combination of both of those factors, but we were able to accommodate the company. There are forested areas available all the way from Fort Liard all down toward Jean Marie River, Fort Providence, Cameron Hills area, Fort Smith, Fort Resolution area, those are all available now, except some of it is assigned to other operators and some of it there is not complete inventory on yet.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do I get from the deputy minister's comments that indeed there are stands of marketable lumber available for entrepreneurs to harvest presently? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there are stands available within limited amounts.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier today in question period, I had asked the Minister some questions on the Development Corporation and the Minister had noted a couple of days ago in the House that there were grants through the Development Corporation as high as $700,000. Could the Minister give the House a little information regarding approximately how many jobs are created for the subsidy of $700,000 or a subsidy of $300,000. I know they would all vary with the types of industry they are in, but if the Minister could give us a little bit of background on the number of jobs that are created so the committee can get a handle on approximately each year what it costs to provide jobs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Koe
Thank you. The general guidelines used for our contributions is a job equivalent, one job or one person working would be equivalent to a contribution of around $100,000 in capital or around $10,000 in subsidies. That is the general guideline that was set quite a few years ago and we are now looking at these standards and reviewing whether they are equitable in today's economy or not.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do I understand that the answer to that last question was that if an organization approached the Development Corporation and were able to show that they were going to be able to create a job, they would have, at least access or ability to put in an application for $110,000. Thank you.
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Koe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are guidelines that I mentioned. One job would be equivalent to a contribution of $100,000 capital, so if they were going to create, at one time, five jobs, it would be requesting $500,000 or equivalent. If it is ongoing operating subsidies, we use a standard of $10,000 per job. If there is a $200,000 operating subsidy that should equate to about 20 jobs. Those are the guidelines that are in existence now and they are under review.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Henry, your time has expired. I will just ask if there are other questions from other Members? Mr. Henry. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had not really intended to ask any questions on the Development Corporation, however, I was going through Hansard last night and there were a couple of things that peaked my interest. I noted that the other day, the Minister had indicated that perhaps it would be a good time to have a better discussion on this in committee of the whole. Also, I was pleased to hear that there are now, I think the Minister said, nine members which would comply with the minimum of seven board members on the NWT Development Corporation as the act stipulates that there has to be a minimum of seven board members at all times.
On Monday, the 26th, the Minister had indicated that there had not been seven board members since around 1996. Then on Tuesday, the Minister replied to a question I had asked, he did not answer my question, but in reply to it, he had implied that it was the MLAs fault that there had not been seven board members since 1996. He said that we had not responded to letters for suggestions for board members. Could the Minister explain a little better why it is our fault that there had not been seven board members from 1996 until April 1999?
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you tell me, Mr. Chairman, how the Member could twist what he read in Hansard so late at night into feeling that I was blaming him and other MLAs for this particular situation is beyond me. That was not what I implied at all. It is set out very clearly that, that was the process that was used to solicit nominees to be put forward by the cabinet to make appointments. That is the process that has been used for years. We await nominees to come forward from MLAs. Surely the Member is not suggesting that I should, as Minister, just put forward whatever name I want or that the President of the Development Corporation should do that either. It has been a long established practice in this Legislature. That is the way we appoint board members to the many boards and agencies that we have. I have said it is the responsibility of Cabinet to make the appointments ultimately. If Cabinet has not been doing that then, I would probably take
the responsibility for not having helped Cabinet comply with the minimum requirements for appointments in the act. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 608 of Hansard, Tuesday April 27, 1999, sorry I made a mistake earlier, the Minister is quoted as saying here, Members have not always come up with names. We have waited sometimes months for good names to come forward. The president has been advising me over the last few years when we have not had a minimum of seven appointed. Each time that was done, letters were sent out to Members of the Legislature asking for nominees to be put forward. Mr. Chairman, since we did not comply, he is saying he did not put the name forward to Cabinet. Is that not what he is saying? Maybe he can explain that a little better then if that is not what he was saying there.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Page 608 at the top of the page.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Mr. Erasmus, I think your line of questioning is going away from the Main Estimates rather than addressing the estimates that are before us. It would probably be more appropriate to address this during question period rather than addressing it here, an issue outside of the expenditure area. I will offer it to the Minister to reply if he wishes to.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Chairman. Just to console the Member, it was never my intention to lay blame on the Ordinary Members of the Legislature. The act says the responsibility lies with Cabinet to make the appointments, and it is my job as Minister to make sure that Cabinet complies with the legislation by forwarding names. Obviously, the process that I have been using has not been the best. There is no need to lay blame with anybody. We have, as of this morning, agreed to appoint more than the minimum amount of seven and that just to make sure that we always comply with the minimum requirements of the act for board members, the Cabinet has also agreed that as Minister, I can, on my own without consulting with the rest of the Assembly, put forward names for appointment to the board so that as an added safety mechanism to make sure we always comply with the minimum number. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I was simply complying with Mr. Kakfwi's suggested mode of dealing with this issue during question period, and similarly, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Henry just asked the question about the board. Obviously, we are all Members here, I am assuming we are all going to be treated similarly, that we are all going to be able to ask similar questions on the same topic.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I believe the Minister did reply to your comments. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also on Tuesday, April 27th, the Minister indicated that Cabinet is responsible for ensuring that the board is properly constituted at all times. First of all he said it was MLAs and now it is Cabinet. Could the Minister indicate what he meant by that please?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the Member had said earlier he had read the act. I was advised by legal counsel that the responsibility to ensure that the board is appointed in keeping with the requirements of the act rests with the Executive Council. In fact, what it says is "there shall be a Board of Directors appointed by the Commissioner and the Executive Council". In layman's terms that is fully intended to mean.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Erasmus, your time is up. I would just like to remind Members that the Development Corporation's budget is on page 11-18 and if there are detailed questions of this sort we could possibly keep the comments, if there are detailed questions, for that particular area. Thank you. Further questions?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister had indicated that during the past year and one-half the number of Community Futures boards operating in the NWT and Nunavut has increased from four to nine. Could the Minister indicate how the funding is provided to those nine boards?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, each of the boards through this budget will be allocated $200,000 for operations. That is for the operation of their office. I am not sure if the question was with regard to capital money as well.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Erasmus, did you wish further information on capital?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, what I am wondering is, do each of these boards receive an equal amount of funding or is it done by per diem? Do they receive a certain amount for each person within their area or how are the boards funded? Are they treated equally or how does it work?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in terms of the operating money, each board is treated equally, each will get $200,000 for their operations regardless of the size of the area that they serve. In terms of capital money, that differs because some had existed as federal entities before they were taken over by the GNWT, they already had capital. Others are fairly new and as we have the available resources we will build them up to an amount of capital that will meet their needs.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the
response indicated that some of them have received federal funding. Are those ones still receiving federal funding and is that the four that is in there, he said there was four and increased to nine, is that the first four that he is referring to?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the two that have received federal funding are Inuvik and Hay River. They are two of the original ones. They are not receiving any federal funding since they were transferred to the GNWT two years ago. All of their operating costs are paid by the GNWT through our department.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, could the deputy minister indicate how this fund works? Do they lend money out and the money comes back to the board to lend it out to other businesses or how does it work?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, each of the boards has an allocation of money. They loan that out in loans up to $75,000. They charge an interest, generally it is prime plus two percent, and assuming that their loans are good loans which most of them are, they then reinvest the money as it comes back to them. They operate very similar to a bank.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, do they all have the same amount of money to loan out?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, they currently do not have the same amount of money to loan out. Some have as little as $540,000. This is a result of two things, some have been established for a number of years, others are relatively new. One is still a proposed board, it has not actually been set up in the Fort Smith area. The intention is to eventually build it up so that each of them do have either an equal amount of money or enough money to meet the demands in that region that they serve.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, have we provided funding for loans to those boards as well that had federal funding?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, no we have not provided loans to the boards.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, sorry I meant to say did we provide them with money so that further funds other than federal funds so they could give more loans in their areas?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, over the years we have provided them with money, the ones that have been established. The exception is the more recent ones who have not yet received money.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, so the intention is that eventually they will all be on equal footing. At what stage or how long does the department think this will take?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Handley.
Mr. HANDLEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have a proposal which the Minister will be taking to the Business Credit Corporation and to the Community Futures organizations. If they accept the proposal, which would mean combining their lending abilities through Community Futures being able to access BCC money for a limited amount, we should be able to achieve that this year. If that proposal is not accepted, then it will depend on our resources.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on page 4-9 in the Minister's opening comments, he indicated that Diamond Projects Division has a budget of $1.6 million and some of the things they are trying to do is develop an agreement with Diavik and Aber on supplying rough diamonds for northern diamond manufacturing. This is a very important issue of course to develop the secondary diamond industry in the North. Could we get an indication of where this initiative is at?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Erasmus, if you have detailed questions and specific questions with regard to that, I believe they could be asked under 11-19 which is Resource Management and Economic Development section. Is the Minister prepared to answer?
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are working on a socio-economic agreement and hope to finalize that by the end of May. A part of that socio-economic agreement will be on value-added activities and we hope to have Aber and Diavik agree to support value-added activities by providing diamonds in some form, shape, size, allocation or other to us so that we can carry on with promoting
the diamond industry here in the North. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Minister had indicated that hopefully by the end of May they will have this socio-economic agreement and that they hope to have a supply of rough diamonds in this. Do we have any hammer of any sort to ensure that Diavik and Aber actually do supply rough diamonds to support the secondary diamond industry? I seem to recall that we had no way of forcing BHP to do this so, is there anything that we can do to ensure that these guys actually do agree to do this?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I just want to remind you, Mr. Erasmus, these are details that can be presented as questions during the specific items and on page 11-20 we have in the budget, diamond projects, so perhaps your questions would be more appropriate to ask then, but I will give the Minister an opportunity if he wishes to answer.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, I think it is perhaps sufficient to say that the company is going through an environmental review. They are seeking support from the aboriginal groups, from our government and from the federal government to begin mining to get into the production of diamonds. It is important to the company. The company has to gain the approval and support of the aboriginal groups and this government so they can proceed, so that they can get a licence to start production. That is a considerable amount of power, I believe, that aboriginal groups and this government have. It is important for these companies to signal to the federal government and to our government that they have support and agreement to proceed in order to acquire a green light from governments to proceed so I do not know that it is necessary to discuss what hammers or threats we could wave at people who are trying to promote economic development and business here in the North. We believe that Diavik and Aber are responsible companies and they will realize that it makes absolute good business sense to come into agreement on supporting value-added activities in the diamond business as part of the socio-economic agreement. Thank you.
--Applause
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Time has expired, Mr. Erasmus. Are there any other Members that wish to ask questions? Questions. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, just for clarification, where did you say that diamond, what page?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. It is on page 11-20 under operations and maintenance, there is a line item there, diamond projects.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Questions? Everybody ready for detail? Page 11-9. Thank you, Mr. Steen. Corporate Management, operations and maintenance, $8.518 million. Agreed?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-11, Corporate Management, details of capital, other equipment, headquarters region. Total headquarters region, $25,000. Agreed?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Environmental protection. I am sorry, Mr. Erasmus, we are on page 11-13, is that where you have your question, Mr. Erasmus, under environmental protection?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask the Chairman to slow down a little bit, please. We cannot even turn the pages fast enough to keep up here.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Yes, I will Mr. Erasmus. We were just approaching it very efficiently, but I appreciate your comment. We were on environmental protection. Yes, Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the Minister's opening statement under environmental protection services, he had indicated that they are going to try to develop consistent practices and standards for environmental protection to improve the northern regulatory system and develop strategies for emissions, greenhouse gases, that type of thing. I seem to recall that a few years ago there was talk of an act to control the sulphur emissions in the Northwest Territories and I believe that is what is coming out of Giant Mine which I have been breathing for the last 48 years so I am very interested to know what has happened to that act. How come it has not been passed and enforced? Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
There is an Environmental Protection Act that has been in force for a number of years. We have regulations in some areas, not in other areas. In the case of sulphur dioxide, we have been essentially following the national standards. We have equipment to monitor the output from the stack at Giant Mine which is the only one that gives off the sulphur dioxide. While there are individual days or periods within some days infrequently, very infrequently, where it exceeds the national standard, generally what they are putting out is within the national standards. We have had consultation with Royal Oak when they were in operation over a couple of years and we could have, even based on the few days, forced them to
increase the height of the stack which would have been the most economical way. Other than that they would have had to put in a $50 million autoclave. We did not enforce it because of the infrequency in which they exceeded the national standard and also given the gold prices, we did not feel it was a fair requirement to force on them in those circumstances.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This Environmental Protection Act, or whatever it was, that the deputy minister was referring to. Is that the new act that was being discussed a couple of years ago because I do not remember passing it. Is that the same act that he is talking about that was supposed to put some controls on sulphur emissions?
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Handley
Mr. Chairman, no, I do not believe it is the one the Member is referring to. The GNWT Environmental Protection Act has been in place for at least six years or so. The act I believe the Member is referring to is probably the Canadian Environmental Protection Act which was under review and is now in force and it has been in force for over a year now.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman. Could we hear a little bit more about this Canadian act, because I am sure there was an NWT act that was supposed to be passed?
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Handley
Mr. Chairman, as I said the GNWT or the NWT Environmental Protection Act has been in force for a number of years. We continue to work on regulations to that act. For example, areas such as used oil waste, agricultural waste, we are continually working on regulations, but the act itself is in place. The Canadian Environmental Protection Act though has been under development for about five years. Over a year ago it was passed. There was considerable controversy over it because of some of the changes that were being proposed in it. The Canadian Environmental Protection Act is the body through which the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act is implemented, and so on, but I think the legislation that has been under review and consideration in the last couple of years is federal legislation, it is not our legislation.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps it was regulations then. Did we have some new regulations that would be a little bit stricter, that we were going to put into place and have not?
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Handley
Mr. Chairman. Yes. There has been discussion about putting in some more stringent regulations on sulphur dioxide, for example. We have essentially adopted the national standards as being what our regulations are.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did those discussions ever go beyond discussions and actually evolve into drafting of regulations, but not put into place?
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Handley
Mr. Chairman. I believe we have some draft regulations which are still in the office.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask why those draft regulations were not put into force? I recall meeting with some doctors here at the Legislative Assembly and they had felt strongly that the emissions here were contributing to an abundance of respiratory problems to the residents of Yellowknife so I would like to know why those regulations were discarded or not put into place. Thank you.
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Handley
Mr. Chairman, I do not recall those specific discussions, but we essentially have been monitoring the emissions at Giant Mine. We have basically adopted the national ones. I do not recall the exact reasons. I am not even sure I was in the department when the draft regulations were being discussed as the Member mentions.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps the Minister or the deputy minister could look into it and get back to me as to why they decided not to adopt these new standards. There must have been a good reason why the department felt that they should have stricter regulations. Thank you.
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Handley
Yes, we will look into it and provide the information.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe this would fall under the Environmental Protection and it regards comments that were made by, I believe, the director of DIAND regarding the responsibility for cleanup of the arsenic at Giant Mine. The federal government, DIAND, does not seem to be quick at assuming the responsibility. They have noted that certainly above ground that they wish to share the responsibility with the Government of the Northwest Territories. Could the Minister advise us as to what responsibility or what regulatory authority this government has in regard to regulating pollutants on the surface? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If no one else assumes responsibility from the private sector, then whoever owns or is responsible for the Giant Mine properties is unable to act on the environmental liability, then the federal government is responsible for cleanup of the subsurface of the mine, largely the arsenic that is stored underground which is estimated to have a cost of $250 million to clean up. The Government of Northwest Territories, in such a hypothetical situation, would be responsible for cleanup of the surface, that is the area that is within the Commissioner's land, all the buildings and reclamation, restoration of the surface site that has been occupied by the mine would be the responsibility of the Government of the Northwest Territories.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Could the Minister tell me in what point within the life of the Government of the Northwest Territories did this government take over the responsibility for surface environmental issues? How many years has this government been responsible for this and it was not federal responsibility? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you. The surface lands were transferred some years ago. We are not exactly sure what year, but we became responsible for the surface lands at a particular year some time ago, and that is where it flowed from. The legislative responsibility flows from our Environmental Protection Act, which largely applies to the surface lands. Thank you.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Can I assume then that when the Government of the Northwest Territories assumed the responsibility for that subsurface activity, that they assumed all the liabilities of past years when it was a federal responsibility? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I believe the Member meant to say surface and not subsurface. All subsurface remains the property and responsibility of the federal government including all operations to do with water. The Government of the Northwest Territories generally deals with all surface lands, lands that are deemed to be Commissioner's Lands. Thank you.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chairperson, and I thank the Minister for correcting that error. For greater certainly then, and I believe the Minister has alluded to it earlier but for greater certainly, he is saying that it is the federal government who is responsible for the cleanup of the subsurface contaminants particularly related to Giant Mine? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Madam Chairperson, the liability for the operations of the mine, the mine environmental liability on the surface and subsurface in regard to the water licence under which Giant operates is the responsibility of the owner of Giant Mine, so it is the responsibility of the private sector. It would, as I understand, will become our responsibility to assume the environmental liability for the surface cleanup only in the event that there became no owner or there was a bankruptcy or total abandonment of that mine by the private sector. The federal government would then, I believe, have to assume responsibility for the environmental liability of the subsurface.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I will have further questions as we go along. Thank you.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
We are on page 11-13, Environmental Protection, operations and maintenance, $1.3 million. Agreed?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Environmental Protection grants and contributions. Contributions, $205,000. Agreed?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Environmental Protection, details of capital, land and buildings, headquarters region. Total headquarters region, $400,000. Agreed?
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Other equipment, headquarters region. Total headquarters region, $10,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you. We are on page 11-19, Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Previously today the Minister had indicated, that Cabinet had said he could put forward names on his own without consulting with the MLAs, for the board members of the NWT Development Corporation. Could he confirm if that is what he said?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the Member had pointed out that we were not complying with the requirements of the NWT Development Corporation Act, and there is a need to make sure that we comply with our own legislation. There is no disagreement about that. We want to make sure that this government is not criticized for not complying with its own legislation. The Cabinet has moved, rather decisively to comply with the act and as an added safeguard, as I have said earlier, I understand Cabinet to have agreed that I, as a Minister who is responsible for making sure Cabinet complies with the act at all times, is given the prerogative to advance names in the event that we are not complying with the act. That is what I meant. It is not exactly what I said, but it is what I meant. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, I do not quite understand what the Minister is saying. Is he saying then that he cannot put forward names on his own without consulting the MLAs?
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The Chair Jake Ootes
I will let the Minister answer, but I do not believe that is what he said. Mr. Minister.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a political process that we use to make sure that all boards are appointed properly, legally and politically, and in an acceptable manner. Generally, we ask every MLA to forward a nominee or a number of nominees for consideration by Cabinet. It is sometimes not possible to appoint Members for various reasons. Sometimes there is difficulty to work through this process. It takes a lot of time. The fact of it is, the act does not say how names should be solicited or advanced for consideration by the executive, but that has been largely the way that we have chosen to operate over the years. Obviously, debate this week, questions in question period have illustrated very clearly, we have not been complying with the act and we have known that. We have acted, in the last few weeks, to come into compliance. We are also going to advance additional names over the next couple of weeks to the Cabinet.
I will continue to ask Members of the Legislature to provide nominees for consideration by Cabinet to bring the total number of board members up to at least ten. We will also look at legislative amendments to bring down the minimum and maximum number of board composition because, since division, we believe no longer a need to have up to 12 and a minimum of seven, and we believe we can lower that. We will look at bring legislative amendments forward to do that. I also understand that, as a Minister, I am given the prerogative to advance names for consideration by Cabinet. It does not mean I will have my nominees approved by Cabinet. In order to make sure that we can always comply with the act, Cabinet has agreed that, as the Minister responsible for advancing names for consideration by Cabinet, that I will have the prerogative to ask for names by whatever means I can I suppose, for consideration to Cabinet, so it would not necessarily be by talking to MLAs that I will get these nominees. Thank you.
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister just took six minutes to answer two straightforward questions. I still do not know if he has the prerogative of putting forward names on his own. On April 23, Friday, at page 519, in reply to a question, he said, "I always try to provide straightforward answers the best I can." If he is doing the best he can, I would hate to be around when he is not, because we would be here for days. Could the Minister please indicate in a straightforward way the best he can, if he has the prerogative to put forward names without consulting MLAs. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that answer. I would like to know why, on Tuesday, April 27th, on page 608 of Hansard, the Minister said, "it is not the prerogative of the President or myself, as the Minister, to advance names without politically seeking the support and nominees from the Members of the Legislature." If he has the prerogative, why did he say that? Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Mr. Erasmus, I will allow your question, but you are getting off the subject of funding, the budget issues, and so forth and you are starting to look at what was said previously in the debates. I will give the Minister an opportunity to answer, but we do want to advise that we are here to consider the budget. Mr. Minister.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is quite simple really. The policy and the process of how to advance names for consideration by Cabinet is not really covered anywhere. As I have said, it has been political practice and the policy of Cabinet to request nominees from the Members of the Legislature. That is a long-standing practice and policy and it will continue to be the way in which we acquire nominees for consideration for appointments to the board. That should be fairly clear.
Cabinet has also agreed, as of this morning, that for added safeguard, I can, as a Minister, forward names for their consideration when it becomes necessary to make sure that we have more than the minimum number of board members appointed. When I was speaking on Tuesday, or whenever it was he is quoting me from, I was saying basically what was standing practice at that time. It is only this morning that there has been a bit of flexibility shown by Cabinet in allowing me to put forward names for their consideration without having to get those names or nominees from MLAs, as I can come up with names by working directly with individual MLAs or perhaps going directly to communities and regions asking for names. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Your time has expired, Mr. Erasmus. We are on Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Did the Minister earlier indicate in his opening statement that there was a full board of directors in the NWT Development Corporation, or was that a statement earlier in the House?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe I just read out the names of the newly appointed board members in response to a question by Mr. Henry at the beginning of opening remarks and general comments when myself, Mr. Handley and Mr. Krutko, assumed our chairs here.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for reminding us that Mr. Henry had asked the question about the board members. Could I ask the Minister which of his staff is responsible for filling vacancies and seats on the NWT Development Corporation?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a correction on my last remarks. I was referring to Mr. Koe. I mistakenly said Mr. Krutko. The President of the NWT Development Corporation in this specific instance is the official that works with me and is responsible for the NWT Development Corporation, the management and operation of that. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Further questions? We are on page 11-19, Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Really, it is not up to the staff to fill vacancies and seats on the boards as the Minister indicated on Monday. It is not up to the staff to fill those vacancies and seats. The staff simply reminds him that there are vacancies. Is that correct?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I understand it, according to legislation, it is Cabinet that is responsible for ensuring that we comply with the act, since Cabinet makes the appointments. It is my responsibility, along with the president of the Development Corporation, to make sure that Cabinet is aware when we do not meet the minium requirement for board members. The past Presidents of the Development Corporation have, I am sure, alerted the respective Ministers over the years to such situations. I have been alerted over the last few years. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister for indicating that it is not actually the responsibility of the staff to fill vacancies and seats as he said on page 554. Mr. Chairman, the Minister had indicated that there has not been a minimum of seven board members as the act stipulates, since 1996. Could he indicate how division has stopped the Minister from complying with that legislation. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask the Minister to indicate how division has stopped him from complying with the legislation?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had been taking that question on notice earlier this week because, as I have said, I am not in the position to give categorical statements about all the times that the President of the Development Corporation may have informed me that we were not meeting the minimum requirements for board members over the last few years and how many letters I have sent out to MLAs, how many times I have taken action to address that situation. There have been a number of resignations, board members lost as a result of division, there have been board members appointed, as I said, to being a Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, so, it has been a convoluted history in the last few years, so I do not want to deter the Member from continuing to make a case of this. I am sure there is one to be made, we want to spend a lot of time at it but the fact is the government has said and I have said we have not been complying. We recognize that. We have moved to comply and so we are. The world should be a better place for it. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the Minister for indicating that division did not stop him from complying with the act as he had indicated on Friday, April 23, page 521. Perhaps I could then ask the Minister if Cabinet has ever, to the best of his recollection, ever refused to endorse and appoint a board member that he has recommended? Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I will let the Minister answer but I believe there is a Cabinet secrecy question involved there. Mr. Minister, do you wish address that?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Henry had indicated he wanted to ask some questions.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before I ask the question I would like to move a motion.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that we extend sitting hours until we complete this department.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Henry. There is a motion on the floor to extend sitting hours to conclude this department, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. We are on page 11-19, resource management and economic development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Mr. Henry.
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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to go back to some questions that I was asking the department earlier on for clarification. It is regarding the Development Corporation and I believe the president informed me there is potential and guidelines in place which would allow for the issuing of $100,000 for capital and $10,000 for creating a job. That is a $10,000 subsidy. Now, how often can an organization, how many years can an organization apply for this type of funding? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Henry. I believe we do have on page 11-23, that question can be addressed there. Mr. Henry, we can entertain it here in the overall operation but I believe there is a more specific amount on page 11-23 if I recall correctly, but I will ask the Minister to address that. Mr. Koe.
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Koe
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in terms of capital, the reason we have the guideline of $100,000 I believe is because in the communities which we target the businesses which we own, level three or level two communities, in many cases they do not have buildings or do not have the equipment necessary to start up the business so the capital equipment, the capitalization of new buildings is quite costly so that is why the higher level. It is amortized over a number of years. These normally are one time contributions other than when they are replacing equipment, sewing machines, sawmill parts or whatever. In terms of the operating subsidy, businesses or subsidiaries are allowed to apply annually for ongoing subsidy costs.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Koe. We are on page 11-19, resource management and economic development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just continuing on the NWT Development Corporation, the Minister had indicated on Tuesday that FMBS directed that he undertake an operational audit of the Development Corporation. Did FMBS draw up terms of reference for that operational audit?
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Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yes. FMB directed that the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development have the operational audit undertaken. RWED, in consultation with the President at the time, drew up the terms of reference.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, did FMB approve the terms of reference?
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Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe we were asked to take the terms of reference back to FMB and I do not recall that we did.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, would the Minister mind tabling those terms of reference tomorrow?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just realized that you can still table documents today so could the Minister table the terms of reference tomorrow or later today to have them available? Thank you.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I understand it the direction came from FMB, the operational audit is going to be conducted by FMB, so it would be up to the Financial Management Board to decide whether or not it can provide those documents that the Member is requesting for tabling. Thank you.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe Cabinet meets every morning and also the deputy minister had indicated that FMB did not even approve the terms of reference so I do not think they will mind sharing them. Would
the Minister ask tomorrow morning whether he can table the terms of reference and if Cabinet says no, can he share them with the MLAs at least, or myself. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if there is a meeting of the Financial Management Board I will put the question forward. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I believe that the same people that sit on Cabinet sit on the Financial Management Board, so can he not get the direction at the Cabinet meeting tomorrow?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that is the devilment of working in government, it is never as simple as it looks. The fact is, it is a very different. There is a big difference between the Financial Management Board and the Cabinet. The Premier and Members of the Cabinet are made up of Ministers. We deal with business of acting as executive for the government. The Financial Management Board is the financial management arm of the executive, is chaired by the Minister of Finance, so they are two separate functions. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. You may have to address your questions to the Minister of the Financial Management Board, Mr. Erasmus. Further questions? Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the Minister for clarifying that and also for indicating that, well I believe he had indicated that he would ask at the next Financial Management Board meeting whether he could verify that and that he will ask at the next FMB meeting and if it is agreed upon, that he does table the terms of reference. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we do as an executive try to hear every request that every Member of the Legislature make and we are not able to respond to all of them in the manner they like, we try to respond to everything. If we could do everything overnight it would be great. As Members now and Ministers and the executive would be the happiest to be able to do something like that. All I can say is we hear the Member and we will try to get the information to him. It is not for me to decide that, I think we made that clear. The Minister of Finance is sitting here listening very attentively. I do not know if the Member is aware of it but we have all heard his request so we will see what we can do to share the information. If there is a reason why we cannot then we will probably be told about it. I am sure we will share that the staff are all glued to the TV sets watching us conducting business down here. They monitor everything and they will tell us probably within the next half hour or very simply first thing in the morning the reasons why there may be or why they cannot. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am just wondering if FMBS directed the Minister to do this operational audit as he indicated on Tuesday, page 609, why he indicated about one half-hour later on page 619 that in February, FMBS met and it was decided at that time to allow me to do an operational audit. There seems to be a big difference between directing someone to do something and allowing them to do an operational audit. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I do not hear a question Mr. Erasmus. Do you have a question?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I asked him why if he was directed as he indicated on page 609, why did he say a half hour later or however long it took the same day on page 619 on Tuesday, April 27, that FMBS allowed him to do an operational audit. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Erasmus I believe you are referring to the unedited Hansard which many of us do not have access to. I will allow the Minister to answer the question but I just cannot follow it because I do not have the Hansard in front of me. Mr. Minister.
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Financial Management Board has directed that an operational audit be done. The operational audit is being done by the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. I should not have said allowed. I should not have, and I will stand corrected. It is in the heat of debate, question period.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Further questions? Mr. Erasmus, your time has expired. Further questions? We are on page 11-19, Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under Wildlife and Fisheries, Great Slave Lake has a tremendous renewable resource, unlike diamond mines and gold mines. It does not just end after you have taken all those resources out if it is managed properly. I understand, from talking to some old-time fishermen, that at one time we used to have closed seasons on the Great Slave Lake and we no longer have those closed seasons. Could we get an indication of why we no longer have closed seasons on Great Slave Lake fishing?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Mr. Chairman, the federal government, I believe, has responsibility and jurisdiction over Great Slave Lake, over inland waters and fisheries. It does not appear to rest anymore with the First Nations governments in this area, so things are unlikely to change unless there is agreement to move on devolution or if there is some way to ensure there is a resolution to the outstanding claims of First Nations in this area for them to get some substantive control back over resources like this, that I believe the Member feels has been seriously mismanaged over the years. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Further questions? We are on page 11-19, Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As indicated, the fisheries in the Great Slave Lake, of course, are a renewable resource, and being renewable, it means that it can continue in perpetuity if it is managed correctly. Obviously, if you do not have closed fishing seasons during spawning time, we are going to lose a lot of fish that could lay eggs. The fishermen have told me that we used to have closed seasons, but we do not now. I would like to ask the Minister if, during his tenure of Renewable Resources as the RWED Minister and Renewable Minister, if he was that prior to that, during his time there did he ever recommend to the federal government that perhaps we should have closed seasons on the Great Slave Lake? Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a government, we have no jurisdiction over inland waters or fisheries and management of that regulation, the legislation of that rests with the federal government. The federal government sets up advisory boards and groups to allow users and the public to have input advising the government on how best to manage resources like this. As a government, we agree that the resource is renewable, that it is something that we all depend on. It is a source of food and potential income for many people, but it has not been managed very well. We are always working on the side of fishermen and aboriginal people trying to find ways in which we can advocate better use, better ways of using resources here in the North that are now currently under the responsibility of the federal government. If there are suggestions that the Member has about what we can do in the next few months, for instance, to propose to the federal government, I would be very happy to work with them on that. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just looking at page 11-18 which indicates that Wildlife and Fisheries is also responsible for developing plans and programs for the sustainable development of the fisheries resource. I am assuming that this would fit into that area. I am glad that the Minister has said that he would take it upon himself to look into this. But what I had asked and I am sure he is going to answer that very straightforward as he said he likes to do on April 23, has he ever recommended this to the federal government while he has been the Minister? Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for clarification, I guess, yes, no answers are ones that my colleagues like me to give. I think Members of Caucus as well, Ordinary Members. It is also true that some days I like to give long-winded answers because there is always something useful in the ensuing discussion that often erupts into.
Back to the business here on the Great Slave Lake fishery, we know that there have been a great number of studies done over the years trying to arrive at a strategy that everybody could support and understand and support, for instance, for a commercial fishing industry on Great Slave Lake. I believe the staff, and I will be preparing an in-house paper that will begin to try to examine the different issues regarding fishing and fisheries on Great Slave Lake and draft a number of recommendations for myself to look at. We are going to look at people who use the lake, outfitters and lodge operators to commercial fishermen to subsistence users, aboriginal people, sports and recreation. A paper like this, if we can work it into a form that is acceptable for release, will be released for public consultation sometime this spring. We will work on the revised strategy based on the consultation we hope to have during the course of the summer. Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps the Minister should be a little bit more careful in what he says in question period. Sometimes he likes to be long-winded because what he actually said was he always tries to provide straightforward answers. Mr. Chairman, the fishermen have told me that in the past, there had been quite an extensive value-added industry with fishing on Great Slave Lake and that, at one time, there were up to 30 people employed in cleaning and filleting fish and that this was then shipped down south. Today this does not occur. Today our fish is simply packed and sent out in a box. All those people that used to work in the filleting industry, filleting area of the fishing industry, are no longer employed. Perhaps some of them are employed, but that particular area is no longer available. Could the Minister indicate what his department is doing to revive this area of the fishing industry? Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The people that want to get into the business of fishing are supported by our government. We provide them with contributions, loans, like every other business. Applicants, we sometimes provide other forms of assistance. We look at value-added activities, so generally speaking I think we have been proactive in trying to support an industry here on the lake that faces some very strong competition from people down south. Thank you.
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The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are on Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
The committee will come back to order. We are on Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Mr. Erasmus?
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other day the Minister indicated that he got legal advice on the meaning of breach when we were talking about the NWT Development Corporation Board, so what I was wondering was since he did not have more than five board members since 1996, did he ever get legal advice on whether they could legally have a meeting without seven members?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Madam Chairperson. My understanding of breach is that breach is considered, by the lawyers that I have talked to, Mr. Erasmus not included, he said it is a bit of too strong a term. Have not complied with the legislation is much more to my liking. I believe that is more properly the term that should be used, it is a little more objective and gets to the point in a straightforward and to the point. I have not sought advice about the issue he is raising. As I have said we have tried to appoint the board over the years and it is obvious that we cannot really beat this issue to death beyond it and I think we are. We have not complied with the act. It is a fact. I accept that. The government accepts that. We have moved, in the last while, to address that. It has been addressed. It has been resolved, so what is the point? Where does the Member want to take this now is more the question, I guess.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Resource, Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. I am going to ask the Member for Yellowknife North to keep his questions to the Main Estimates. I believe this is the fourth time the Member has been recognized on this particular line item. I will ask him to direct his question to the issue of the Main Estimates, and other issues to do with the Development Corporation Board can be taken up in question period. Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Could the Chair clarify for me whether all Members have the opportunity to be extended the same line of questioning as every Member? I seem to recall that Mr. Henry was the first Member to ask questions about the board of the NWT Development Corporation.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
I believe the question is, is every Member afforded the same opportunity to ask questions on a certain subject. Yes, they are and there has been a tremendous amount of latitude with respect to this particular subject today. The rule book indicates that no Member shall speak for more than ten minutes at any one time in committee of the whole and subject to the discretion of the Chair, a Member may speak more than once to a matter under discussion but not until every Member wishing to speak has spoken. My answer to the Member is that, I believe, as I said that this is the fourth time the Member has been recognized on this particular line item and I would say it is not infringing on the Member's privilege to ask questions in this committee. Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Madam Chairperson, is it okay to ask questions about the Auditor General, who I believe gives direction to the Development Corporation and who has been, I believe has a lot to do with money anyways?
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Certainly, Mr. Erasmus. As the Auditor General's reports do pertain to the issue of Main Estimates, absolutely.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Minister had indicated that the Auditor General and the staff understood a quorum as being a majority of the Members appointed and that they had been able legally to meet the definition of what a quorum is. Could the Minister indicate whether the Auditor General had provided him with a letter on that particular legal opinion?
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am advised that there is a letter, and we can provide it to the Member. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Could the Minister indicate whether he knows if the Auditor General is a lawyer?
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Mr. Erasmus, I am sorry, I am going to rule your question out of order. It has nothing to do with the Main Estimates. We are on line item, page 11-19, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Under Parks and Tourism, could we get the clock started again please?
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Mr. Erasmus, this is still on the same line item, so we are still on the same time segment. Thank you, Mr. Erasmus.
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Under Parks and Tourism, the parks in Yellowknife have parks officers and people working for parks in the summer. I have been informed by people who have worked in this particular area in the past that people who work in the summer have, I guess, I cannot remember the term, they work every year but they do not work full-time. They do not work all year. I understand that they found a way so that they can work a lot of overtime hours in the summer. Once the operation is shut down in September or
whatever, that they are able to get paid, at least one person in the past, has been able to get paid all winter from working during that summer. I had written the Minister about this some time ago. Could the Minister indicate whether he has moved to rectify this situation so this can no longer be done? Thank you.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Yes, Madam Chairperson. The people the Member are referring to are seasonal workers that do frequently put in overtime. We have checked, and there is no one who earned enough overtime over the summer to be paid all winter. All of the overtime that people are paid for is approved by the supervisor, and we certainly continue to monitor to make sure it is not excessive or unnecessary. There is no one who got paid all winter as a result of their hours they put in the summer.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Could the deputy minister indicate whether this has happened in the past? Is this the first year that this has not happened in the immediate two or three years?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
To my knowledge, there has never been anyone who has been a seasonal worker for RWED who has earned enough overtime in the summer to be on full salary all winter. People frequently draw unemployment insurance, people take other jobs, but no, in terms of full salary, there is no one that I know of.
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Other people that worked in the department know them, know of it happening and I know of it happening because the person showed me his cheque in March. Perhaps we could let the deputy minister know at another time. I do not think it is appropriate to devolve names in this place so, as I said, I will undertake to provide the deputy minister with that information at another time. Thank you.
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Resource Management and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, $32.537 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Resource Management and Economic Development, grants and contributions, grants, $652,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 462
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Madam Chairperson, could I ask you what page you are on?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Madam Chairperson, we do not get to ask questions on page 11-20?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 462
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Mr. Erasmus, apparently we have already done what is on page 11-20 in the capital relating to that starts on page 11-26 which is coming up. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I thought we were on page 11-19.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
That was called and agreed and I have now called Resource management and economic development, grants and contributions, grants $652,000. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, why are we jumping from page 11-19 to page 11-21?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 462
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Erasmus, as I explained we have operations and maintenance on page 19. It is the breakdown of what we just agreed to on 11-19 and the detail is on 11-20. The capital comes up later. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, so we do not go page by page is that what you are saying?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. No, Mr. Erasmus. We go page by page but we do not deal with the detail of every page. If you look at page 11-19 where it says operations and maintenance, $32.537 million that deals with the operations and maintenance portion. The $1.737 million that is for capital starts on page 11-26. This is not a variance from any process that we have been doing all along. This is how we have been doing it. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, if we do not go page by page how are we supposed to be able to keep track of all these individual figures here for each area in the heat of the questioning as Mr. Kakfwi likes to call it, particularly since nobody else seems to want to ask questions.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Well, I believe that most of the areas that are under operations and maintenance have been covered by questions already by Mr. Henry and yourself. We are on page 11-21, grants and contributions, grants $652,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 462
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, for the humane trap development, could we hear what is being done in that area? The trappers, a lot of the older trappers complain that the newer humane traps are too bulky
and too difficult to use. Could we get an indication of what is happening in this area please?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, under humane trap development we have a grant of $5,000. That is a grant that is available to inventors working on the development of humane trapping devices. The money is applied for at times, I do not recall whether it was applied for last year, but it will be available again in this coming year. In terms of trap development, we do not do trap development in our department.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, if the deputy minister would be so kind could he perhaps explain what is happening in that area even though his department is not responsible for developing humane traps.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I am not 100 percent sure what is happening across the country in that. There is a trap research station in Alberta near Vegreville that is doing some work on testing various traps that people submit. The Fur Institute of Canada is active in prompting humane trapping. The federal government has also prompted it. I suspect in fact the National Research Council may even be doing some work on various forms of trapping. Quite frankly, I do not know all that is going on in trap research. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, under the furs, could the Minister or the deputy minister indicate how the Fur Pricing Program works?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, the Fur Pricing Program is a program where we provide support to trappers to ensure they have a minimum price for selected species of fur. This is to ensure that trappers can continue to find that occupation viable. The program is managed out of our regional offices. Trappers bring their fur in. If the fur is of good quality, they are guaranteed a minimum price. We essentially supplement them based on the set minimum price against the sale price for that particular piece of fur. I do not have the exact amounts of the minimum price for each of the species but it was started in 1995 and in the western Arctic it covers muskrats, beavers. There was no need to have it for martin and I am not sure of exactly all the species. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, so once the government gets those furs, what do they do with them?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, the furs are the property of the trapper. We will handle the fur in the sense of packing it and sending it off to auction house on their behalf if they ask us to. On the other hand, a trapper can sell it to a buyer in the Northwest Territories or wherever they like. We provide the service for them and we also give them the price guarantee but the fur is always theirs. We do not buy it from them.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I believe it was last year the department had moved to get better fur prices and I believe that they had hired someone down south to work in this area or something. Could the Minister or the deputy minister explain what they have done in this area and if it has worked?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, we have made available to the trappers an option where they can have their furs marketed through a company in Montreal. The company has assured us that they would provide at least 15 percent improvement over what the auction houses have historically been paying. They are able to do this because they are taking the fur that they get and marketing it as northern furs and northern furs are known around the world as being better quality. We do not have all the information yet from this past trapping season to know whether or not they have achieved those targets, but again I emphasize that it is up to each trapper whether or not they participate in the program.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, could the deputy minister indicate again how much they have been assured that they would be able to get, an extra amount of 15 percent did he say, or 25 percent, I just did not get that?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, they told me they would receive 15 percent more than the average market auction house price.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 463
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, what will the department do if this does not bear
out to be true after they get the information later this year?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, we have a minimum fur pricing program in place any way. It is voluntary to each trapper whether or not they participate in the program, so it does not matter how the trapper sells it, they will still get their minimum price. If this arrangement through the Montreal marketing firm is successful they will get 15 percent more. If they do not get it, then they are certainly assured of the minimum price no matter where they sell it.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, perhaps I was not clear enough in my question. Will the department go longer than one year with this new way of doing business even if their new marketer or whatever he is called cannot get more than 15 percent than the average auction house? Will they be trying it more than one year? I mean, one year does not seem to be a very good time period to see if it is successful. There are all kinds of varying factors which come into play.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, yes, as long as the trappers continue to send their fur to that firm then the program will continue. I have to emphasize that the department gave some money initially for the development of the project but we do not on an ongoing basis support it. The people are doing it as a business venture so, as long as trappers continue to send the fur there, the program will continue.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, could the deputy minister indicate what kind of acceptance to this program there is from the trappers are most of them taking advantage of this or could you give me an indication of that please?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Handley
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, in terms of the number of trappers, I believe about 70 to 75 percent have taken advantage of it.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, just a question directed to yourself. I would encourage you to release the Pages, I mean it is getting close to 7:00 p.m. and it is a school night and I am not sure if these young people have had an opportunity to have supper yet, so I would ask you to give consideration to releasing them from their duties. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Henry for being so considerate. Four of the Pages have already gone apparently and administration has talked to the rest of them. Do you have any questions, Mr. Henry? Grants and contributions, grants, $652,000. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, this particular page 11-21, how many pages does that cover?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
I think it is just this page, these four items are covered by this page, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, so once we approve this page are we going to stop at 11-22 and be able to ask questions there?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, how come we did not do that at the previous page?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Mr. Erasmus, the items covered on page 11-22, 11-23, 11-24, and 11-25, all those itemized are covered under the total at the bottom where it says total grants and contributions, total contributions. So those pages 22 through 25 are covered by a dollar amount which is on page 11-25. Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
So what does that mean? We will be stopping at each page, is that correct?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
No, but we will allow questions for everything from page 11-22 to page 11-25. We will allow questions on all of those things that are covered on those pages under the number on page 11-25, the dollar amount on 11-25. Thank you. Mr. Erasmus, we have a certain procedure in committee and the Chair has a certain way of doing these things and it is the way we have always done them but, just so that you will understand it better, I am going to ask Mr. Schauerte to just explain how the calling of the items works. Mr. Schauerte.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 464
Deputy Clerk Mr. Schauerte
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I think Mr. Erasmus refers to the rationale for not calling the items on page 11-20. The reason being, you will note that the operations and maintenance, $32.537 million, that figure is also cited on page 11-9 and the activity descriptions on 11-19. On 11-19, a number of questions were posed regarding operations and maintenance. The capital of $1.737 million is going to be addressed on pages 11-26 and 27 which are upcoming, as the Chair has indicated. That is the rationale for not calling the items on page 11-20. There is still an opportunity for all Members to ask their questions on the detailed items within each departmental budget. That is why the Chair has been proceeding along these lines. It is the same process that has been followed as we consider all the other departmental budgets.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. On page 11-25, that is where we ask about all of these 11-22 and 11-23 information? Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. We are going to call Resource Management and Economic Development, grants and contributions, grant $652,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you. We are on page 11-25, Resource Management and Economic Development, contributions. The item is on 11-22, 23, 24, and 25. Total contributions, $13.734 million. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this point, I would like to advise Members a business which is controlled by me called Greenway Holdings Ltd., has a loan with the Business Credit Corporation. As such, I am in a conflict in consideration of this line item. I would like to declare this conflict, refrain from debating this matter and withdraw from the committee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. We have noted that you are in the process of leaving the Chamber. Contributions, $13.734 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 11-23, under the NWT Development Corporation, the contributions to generate employment and develop economic opportunities may not be suited for individual entrepreneurs, a very worthwhile endeavour. I am sure that the board of directors on the NWT Development Corporation are keeping a close eye on that. I would like to ask the Minister if he was a Minister or an Ordinary Member when Ms. Jeanie Marie-Jewell was a Minister?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Mr. Erasmus, I do not understand the relevance of that to the discussion. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I was asking is because on April 4 and 5, 1991, the Union of Northern Workers took the Minister of Safety and Public Services to court because she would not comply with appointing board members to the mining board. The court ordered her to comply with the Mining Health and Safety Act. What I was wondering, was why this Minister thinks that the Court would treat this particular board any different than they treated the mining board? Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. I believe the Minister is not in a position to give a legal opinion on that. Contributions, page 11-25, $13.735 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since the Minister is not in a position to give a legal opinion, I will be happy to provide him with this court case, because the Court said that you only take a reasonable time to appoint members. So, I will provide this to the Minister so that he does not have an illegal board for another two and a half year period. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. We are on grants and contributions, line item, $13.735 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 11-25, the West Kitikmeot Slave Study, it says that there is a coalition of industry aboriginal organizations and environmental organizations. Could the Minister indicate which environmental organizations are involved in this particular study?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I can provide Members with a list of members of the coalition.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Grants and contributions, $13.735 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister indicate if any groups that were involved in the West Kitikmeot Slave Study have pulled out or dropped out of this coalition?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will make that information available to Members of the committee.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is the Minister saying he does not remember?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
I am sorry, Mr. Erasmus. I missed the Minister's answer, so perhaps I will ask the Minister to respond.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is important that the Member hear me. I just said I would provide the two pieces of information he asked for in his last two questions. That is what I said. It will be provided to him.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just wondering why he wanted to provide it to me at a later time. Is he not able to tell me now?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
The Chair Jake Ootes
I am sure that the Minister would offer to provide it now, Mr. Erasmus, but I will ask the Minister to reply if he so wishes.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 465
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The West Kitikmeot Slave Study is ongoing. It does have members. I am not sure exactly, since Mr. Erasmus has taken delight in pointing at all the grammatical errors I have made in the last few
days, I want to be very sure of the answers I give him. I may leave out some members of this committee, I may say something that may get him to believe that I am not telling the whole truth or misleading him, so, I will just leave it at that. I have offered and I will give him the information that he asked for in his last two questions.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are on grants and contributions, $13.734 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-26, Details of Capital, Resource Management and Economic Development, lands and buildings, headquarters region, total headquarters region, $429,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-27, details of capital, other equipment, headquarters region. Total headquarters region,$31,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
The Chair Jake Ootes
Computer hardware and software, Inuvik region. Total Inuvik region, $25,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
April 29th, 1999
Page 466
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-29, Forest Management, operations and maintenance, $28.285 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could we get an indication of how, first of all, I do not want to call something by the wrong name. What is it that people get, is it a permit or a licence or what when they are allowed to do some logging in certain areas?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If people get permission to harvest for one year it is referred to as a permit. If it is for multiple years, it is referred to as a licence.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can anybody just come in and apply for a permit or a licence?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, anyone can apply. There is a review process and consultation process that they would have to satisfy.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do the neighbouring communities in that particular region have to consent to permits or licences being granted? Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, not necessarily, but they have to be consulted, but it is not required that they consent.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the deputy minister is saying that anybody can apply, does this include a company from the south can come and apply and get a permit or a licence in the Northwest Territories to harvest logs?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 466
Handley
Anyone can apply, but that does not necessarily mean they will get a licence. As I mentioned, it goes
through an internal review in the department and also goes through a consultation process with the affected communities and organizations. Beginning this year, it will have to go through the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Board. Anyone can apply, but whether they get a licence or not depends on a number of factors.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are there currently any southern companies harvesting with licences or permits anywhere in the Northwest Territories?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Handley
Yes. There are two companies that are considered southern. One is from Alberta that is harvesting in the Cameron Hills area. This is the last year of a five- year permit. The other is a company from Nelson, BC, who are in a joint venture with the community of Nahanni Butte, it is a joint venture, but the principal company is from Fort Nelson.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The deputy minister indicated that there is going to be a change in the way this area will be monitored or how the permits and licences will be issued. He mentioned the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. Could he explain how this change will now work? How will this new system work?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the Member is referring to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. Under that act, there are regional boards. Any permit that involves the use of land or water will be required to go through a screening process, depending on the magnitude of the operation. It could either be approved by the regional board or it might be referred up to the territorial land and water board, or it might even be to the impact board. There is a structured process, it is federal legislation and it goes into full effect presumably this year.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe this act was put into places where land claims have been finalized. How will it work in areas where the land claims have not been finalized. For instance, in the North Slave regions or the Deh Cho?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Handley
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Where there is not a regional board, then I believe the territory-wide board will have a responsibility for the issue. That act, as I say, it is federal legislation and exactly how it will operate will be largely determined by the federal government.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the deputy minister know if there will be local people on that territorial-wide board where there are no land claims finalized, for instance, the Deh Cho and North Slave region?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand that the board, when it is fully operational and functional, will operate throughout the Northwest Territories, except for the Inuvialuit settlement area. Where there are claims settled, all land use and water use will be within the domain of the regional boards that are set up through the claims legislation. Where matters cross settlement areas and affect more than one region, the overall board will preside over areas where there are no claims settled. It is what I understand. Thank you.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
Thank you. We are on page 11-29, Forest Management, operations and maintenance, $28.285 million. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask for a two minute break.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Please proceed, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-29, Forest Management, operations and maintenance, $28.285 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
We are on page 11-31, Forest Management, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $100,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-32, Forest Management, details of capital, land and buildings, Fort Smith region. Total Fort Smith region, $49,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
Other equipment, headquarters region, total headquarters region, $166,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 467
The Chair Jake Ootes
Computer hardware and software, headquarters region. Total headquarters region, $40,000. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-35, details of work performed on behalf of others. Page 11-36, total department, $3.398 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
The Chair Jake Ootes
Page 11-7, Resources Wildlife and Economic Development, program summary, operations and maintenance, $70.640 million. Agreed?
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
The Chair Jake Ootes
I want to thank the Minister and his officials for appearing before us today and answering all the important and very detailed questions. Thank you. I will now rise and report progress.
Committee Motion 25-13(7): Resurrecting And Priorizing The Northern Accord Proposal
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 468
