This is page numbers 721 - 753 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Total department, -$42,000. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am sorry. You did not see my hand up. The indication here is that surplus staff housing units are going to be used for social housing in the communities of Fort Simpson and Norman Wells, five units in Fort Simpson and four units in Norman Wells. Could the Minister indicate if this is part of the yearly housing allocation that goes to communities? Every year communities get a specific allocation of housing units. Normally there are only two or three a year, and every community gets their fair share according to the housing needs survey that is done periodically. I think the last one was done last year. What I am wondering is if these allocations of five social housing units in Fort Simpson and four social housing units in Norman Wells are part of the yearly allocation based on the last housing needs survey that was done. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 729

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, actually the government has not allocated any new public housing since 1992. There have been no allocations by community since 1992. This government has not been able to build public housing units. Typically, the new housing that is built in communities is supported by home ownership programs that the Housing Corporation offers, and those are driven by application rather than by allocation. This transfer results from our policy of disposing of staff housing, and in that policy it states that in communities where staff housing is declared to be surplus, if it is not able to be sold, it is to be offered to the Housing Corporation to be used for public housing if needed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 729

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am glad to know there is a policy in place to handle this. What does the policy indicate about the fact that these units are going in and about the allocation of units that those particular communities already have? For instance, I am not sure what their allocation was. Say, Fort Simpson is supposed to get five units this year. Are those five social housing units that are going in now additional units in that community? Do these units here take the place of the units that would have gone into those communities? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. No, in fact if these units were not provided to the Housing Corporation to use as social housing, there would have been no social housing units built in those communities. There is no allocation for social housing for any community. Since 1992 this government has not been able to build new social housing units. Rather than having vacant staff housing sit empty in those communities where we have it, this policy which I understand was developed in consultation, with the Standing Committee on Social Programs, dictates they should be transferred to the social housing program. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, I am not asking whether the government allocated social housing to the community. What I am asking is, does that community lose its other allocation then? This effectively puts five more units into the community of Fort Simpson, Nahendeh, and four social housing units in the Sahtu community of Norman Wells. Normally you only get a certain amount of units that are allocated according to the housing needs survey, so if you are getting five social housing units plus your normal allocation, then you are getting two or three times what you would normally get. What I am asking is, in Fort Simpson, say, do they get these five units plus their normal allocation? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I do not believe there is any relationship between social housing and home ownership, so there is no tie in terms of allocation. There are no housing units allocated under the Social Housing Policy. As I said, home ownership is supported by the Housing Corporation on an application-driven basis. That would mean that if somebody could make an application to own a home, they would not typically qualify for social housing. So it is two completely separate groups of clients being dealt with here. The two programs are not linked in terms of looking at how many houses might go to a community. As I said, the only other option with these units, since we have not been able to sell them, is to have them sit empty. If there is a need in the community. The policy enables us to put them to good use.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I understand there are two different groups of clients that have absolutely nothing to do with the total amount of new units that will be in that community through the Housing Corporation. The only other option is not to leave them sit there. The other option is to give them those five units and take away the other units that they would normally get because they should not be receiving more units in one year than what the housing need survey says they are supposed to be allotted. There is a formula that has been adopted, and we should be sticking to that. Why is this community getting those extra units?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I must say, I do not accept the Member's argument that there should be a link between the two. I think that social housing is intended for an entirely different target audience than our home ownership programs. I do not see how we could say to somebody who qualified for home ownership that because we were able to move an existing structure, a structure that sits in the community right now so that rather than having it sit empty, we are providing it to the Housing Corporation to use for social housing. How can we say to a client who qualifies for a home ownership program, sorry, you cannot possibly get into this because we dealt with another program here. There should not necessarily be a link between these two programs. The Housing Corporation was not created to deal with just one client base. It was created to deal with a number of different client bases. All of those client bases have legitimate rights to have their needs dealt with as ably as this government can. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

July 29th, 1999

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am not disagreeing with the fact that all the various types of clients should have their needs met. What I am disagreeing with is the way these communities are getting an extra four and five units after the fact and not going according to the formula that is supposed to be used. The other thing I wanted to ask about, but I do not think we are going to get anywhere with that, the Minister had indicated that policy was developed with the Social Programs Committee or something to that effect. Could he indicate exactly when the Social Programs Committee reviewed that particular policy and agreed that it was the proper way to proceed? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Chairperson, could I direct this question to the Minister for the Housing Corporation. I believe he has that information.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. This policy was driven by Members of this Assembly and the Social Programs Committee. The exact timing, I could not give the Member, but I know it was probably in the last two years before that because there was a large concern put forward that there were not enough social housing units in communities. Since, as a department, we have not built social housing units since 1992, the demand has been growing. When this government went on to sell the staff housing units, direction at that time was raised in this Assembly that we should be turning them to social housing units. So that policy was put into place and has been put into practice now for, I believe, over a year, because I believe we have seen this before. The units that are in the communities are first put up for sale by this government to the public and interested parties. When that does not happen, then it is given an opportunity for the communities to look at that. When it has been declared surplus by each department, then we turn them over to social housing units. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Erasmus, your ten minutes are up, and I will go to Mr. Krutko. If afterwards, you still have questions, come back. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Just following up on the same questions as my colleague, can the Minister tell me exactly how many other units have been transferred to the local housing authorities to be used for social housing?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Dent.