This is page numbers 47 - 70 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 65

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments and suggestions the Members are making. We know there are some real major issues looming on the horizon.

One that is mentioned a number of times is the increasing difficulty in coping with the social issues at the community level. We also know that looming on the horizon is the very strong reality that aboriginal people will be establishing aboriginal governments, or public governments, aboriginal-public government models, and that these will need to be set up and given some prospect for governing a relatively healthy population. A strong, well-educated mobile population with a good economic base. We need to prepare to meet those things the best we can.

Generally, we are talking about preparing for self-government or items like the pipeline, highway and for ensuring that we do everything we can now so that northern and aboriginal peoples will have a strong economic future and will be well positioned to take charge of governments, of economic development opportunities, to initiate economic development wherever we can. Also, to have governments they can feel a part of, manage and govern themselves with.

Specific suggestions as to what we can do with the sale of alcohol and the government's involvement in those areas...we have already privatized to a certain extent. If there are more suggestions to be made, we would welcome them. They need to be considered in the context of government making itself more efficient and accountable, but also providing opportunities for communities to have some say in the way government carries out functions.

I cannot respond more specifically to the Member on his suggestions about liquor outlets and revenue raised through the sale of alcohol at this time, but it will be brought to the attention of the Finance Minister. We will discuss this in due course.

I think I have to remind Members, particularly during question period, we have been here about a month. It would hardly be respectful for us to suggest, even for a moment, that we have a whole new plan and initiative clearly and well thought out, that we can start suggesting that we are in charge and have a very clear vision and direction at this time.

Many of the responses that will be given to Members during this Session will be the responses that perhaps previous Ministers and governments have been giving, simply because we are reorganizing, or as the Minister responsible for Education said yesterday, we have given Ministers virtually no time to pay attention to their individual portfolios and to be briefed on the many issues and responsibilities, legislation, policies and programs they are responsible for.

We have made it a point to work with the Ministers in looking at the general picture. We made it almost impossible for them to take time, except for the evenings and weekends, to look at the briefing books, to read what specific responsibilities they have. I felt comfortable in that as a Premier because the departments were run according to the policies and directions set by the previous government, until new direction and policies are developed. We have focused primarily on trying to develop a team, a collective approach to understanding what our job is, what our responsibilities are, trying to reach out and develop with the MLAs, and now with the aboriginal and community leaders.

What is our vision, goals and objectives? What are some of the specific things we can do to move towards that together? I appreciate the comments the Members are making. That was the intent of the statement I made, to get as much feedback and input as possible so we can continue to refine our work. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee, did you want a further response to your comments? General comments. The Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was also appreciative of the statement by Mr. Kakfwi as the Premier. I think we all agree these are the golden objectives we would all like to achieve. I would say there is a lot of work that needs to be done towards that end. I think some of the questions and statements made in the last couple of days are reflective of some of the problems that we see in the communities and regional centres.

I was speaking on the language issue yesterday. The aboriginal people of the Northwest Territories, like every part of North and South America, have gone through a tremendous change in the last 100 years. For a lot of people, the last 50 years. We went through an industrial age, a communication age, and now we are hitting a digital age.

They have cut government programs, trying to cut our languages, our cultures, our way of life. They have even tried to take the lands away, and why not? Those kinds of strains have had a negative impact on the communities. We are learning and working through this. As my colleague, Ms. Lee indicated, not all news is bad. Not all of the issues are bad. There is a lot of good news out there and I will be glad to recognize a lot of them. I recognize quite a bit in our discussions, our plan workshops... I have mentioned a few.

Looking at the future, I think it looks good. I think this government has to start seriously looking at devolving some of the responsibilities, especially in the social envelope, towards the regional and community governments.

The statistics we have clearly indicate we are not doing the job we could be doing. We could do a better job. We have been saying that for 20 years or so. I think we can start transferring some programs in the areas of education, health and social programs to regional governments.

If you look in the North Slave, the Dogrib region, they have responsibilities for those envelopes and they are producing better results. I think there are people in my area, Akaitcho Treaty 8, who want to look at something like that. But there are roadblocks up there. As Mr. Krutko said, we have to start dropping those roadblocks and move forward.

I think they have a better idea of how they want to do it and we have to give them that responsibility with the necessary resources. I think they will do a better job, which will leave more time for capital expenditures. Right now, we are in a catch-22 situation. We spent all of our time and energies on social programs when history and other indicators have proven that if you have a strong, economic community, you have better, healthier people. If we cannot create that because we are so busy with the social programs, then maybe we should give the social programs to those that are directly affected.

I would like to pick up on a question my honourable colleague had asked. I think the Minister for Youth...that is a great idea. Healthy communities start with the youth. Right now, the youth are in great trouble. In my communities, there are no facilities or resources available for youth. They have no place to go. The peak hours for crime are between 7:00 p.m. and 3:00 a.m., and there is nowhere for youth in our communities to do anything in that time.

Mind you, there are many communities in the North that have the same problem. There is no money available for them. I just received a call from one of my constituents wanting money for a group of youths who are travelling to Hay River during carnival to perform a Metis dance, but will not have any money to get to Hay River. That is a two-hour drive.

I will gladly work with the Minister responsible for Youth in developing some policies to see where we could help the youth. I think we have to have strong education. Right now, our graduation rate in the small communities is less than 20 percent. That is unacceptable. Everything we have looked at in the last few days says the social envelope takes up most of our budget, yet I do not see too much being done at the community level to fix those problems.

I think there has to be more money put into programs for youth. Sports and recreation is another area. Communities may have a $3 million arena, but no money to run it. People in the communities do not have money to pay for their children's hockey equipment, or even to use the facilities. There has to be more money invested in youth, sports and recreation, cultural development, language development, and learning to use modern day equipment and tools, like the Internet.

I was just reading a speech given by a CBC executive. In less than ten years, people will be able to directly communicate with their television, asking the television to see what kind of program they want to watch. If you are doing research on a particular topic, you shut off your television and go to work. Twelve hours later, you come back, turn on the television, and it will tell you how many programs relate to your research. You have to be able to educate the people in the communities and make them comfortable using technology. Right now, people are not comfortable using technology because they are scared of it.

Kids leave Lutsel K'e with a grade 10 education. When they arrive in a place like Fort Smith, Hay River, or Yellowknife, their grade 10 education is equivalent to a grade 8 education. Even then, they are graduated for statistical reasons.

Right off the bat, they are behind the eight ball. You have to be able to improve that. There is a lack of control in hiring and retaining professionals in the communities. Local boards are spending an obscene amount of money in marketing and advertising, where those dollars could be going to programs and services where it is badly needed.

I will give you an example. One teacher in Lutsel K'e, I will not mention names, but apparently he wrote a nasty letter to the paper, putting everyone in the community down. Kids were crying when they arrived home. When they had a parent-teacher interview, somehow somebody got into his desk. He was drawing very pornographic material of kids. This guy had a history of mental problems. He was hired out of Toronto while he was unemployed. There were no checks and balances. He fell through the cracks and was somehow put in charge of young, vulnerable kids.

In our recent history, we can look at some of the stories from the High Arctic, the Western and Eastern Arctic, dealing with child sexual abuse and the sexual abuse of women. We have to be very cognizant of who we hire from the outside. We cannot do that unless we have control of the hiring process.

We could look to the future and say that land claims are going to be settled and what not, so we will wait. Currently, I believe we are getting monies on behalf of all people of the Northwest Territories. We have to start applying those monies where they are needed, which is at the community level. I have always said that government has to not only work harder, but it has to work smarter.

The process of dividing funds by population is not the best solution. If there is a strong problem in one area, you should deal with that problem before it gets any bigger. You do not just say here is $3,000 based on the population of your community. $3,000 does not even buy a laptop computer.

I will restate my commitment to work with the Minister responsible for Youth because that is the future, and it is a problem area in my constituency. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. The Chair recognizes the Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I like the message from the Member for Tu Nedhe. We all acknowledge the history of aboriginal people has been very negative, and has had a negative impact on aboriginal people across this country for the last few hundred years.

Despite everything, aboriginal people have survived. I believe aboriginal people will not only survive, but have tremendous potential to recover, to grow and prosper and be a strong people again. I believe we can be stronger than we are today. We have to have a plan and a commitment to work together to improve our lives.

While Mr. Nitah was talking, I remembered one of the first times I made print in the national paper. It was in 1975, when Commissioner Hawson was still a one-man government in the Northwest Territories. I was working with George Erasmus in the Dene Nation office. Mr. Erasmus was not available when a reporter from the Financial Post came to interview someone. I was the only one around that day. I posed for a picture, standing as tall, straight and arrogant as I could.

There was a picture of me and a quote that said "what we want is to have a lot of political control". I remember people saying it was incredible audacity for somebody that nobody knew, I was just a field worker at the time, to say something like that...but that was the kind of thing we were talking about in 1975. It was two years later the chiefs decided to put candidates forward to be elected to this Legislature. That motion is still a standing motion of the Dene chiefs, to put people in here to be Members of the Legislature.

What we have never finished is articulating the strategy of how our MLAs, chiefs and Ministers are supposed to work together once we were all in place. There is a lot of political control in place. We just have not yet decided how it should be used.

One of the biggest difficulties we have is staying positive. We know the problems. For years, people kept saying it was the federal government's fault, or it is the government's fault.

We need to get beyond that and talk about what we can do about it. What can we do? We have a Member of Parliament in Ottawa. We have a Cabinet and a Legislature that is prepared to work closely and strongly with the chiefs, Metis leaders, Inuvialuit leaders and northern peoples. It takes more than just us to do that. We are waiting, and asking the aboriginal leaders to come forward and talk with us about the things we can do together, both the immediate things as well as the long-term things. I think together we will accomplish many things.

Ms. Lee spoke of the tremendous changes she has seen in the last decade or so. There has been a lot of change since 1975. There still is so much more to be done.

Mr. Nitah talked about youth. I think the Member for Tu Nedhe articulated rather well the importance of youth. Many Members will know, especially the ones from smaller communities, about 50 percent of the voting public is under 25. A substantial portion of the people who elect us are considered youth.

We are compelled, if not by a sincere desire to do something about the youth, but to politically ascertain what it is that this part of our constituency wants us to do. What can we do to acknowledge and support them? Even more importantly, what can we do to utilize them, to use them to help us build a stronger, better future for everybody?

This ties into the elders. How the government treats the elders is related to how the youth see and relate to the elders. There is a direct relationship between the responsibility we have to the youth and the elders.

The Minister for Seniors and the Minister for Youth have been designated lead Ministers, so when the youth wish to address a question to this government, their Minister is Mr. Allen. Mr. Allen will take the issue to the appropriate Minister. It may be the Minister responsible for Justice or the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Allen will work in partnership with those Ministers that have responsibility for youth and elders. Mr. Steen will also work in the same way. We will designate an official in the social envelope that will be their principal official to work with these two respective Ministers. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. General comments. The Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to join my colleagues in recognizing the value and positive tone the Premier set in making his statement. I too have gathered a response that is favourable and supportive. I would like to reflect on something I think really stood out in the message, more than many of the other messages that have been delivered in this young Assembly and in previous Assemblies; the emphasis the Premier placed on Northerners' responsibility as individuals and families to make lifestyle choices that will make a difference in the quality of our society.

I have heard Mr. Kakfwi tell a story three times now, and I hope he tells it many more times. It is the story of the young lady in Tulita who had the courage to stand up in a public meeting and say that if all the well intentioned motives of politicians for self-government and constitutional development cannot help her people reduce the incidents of gambling, smoking, drinking or abuse, then it was not really doing much good.

I take that as a signal, Mr. Chairman, that really brings home what we do as leaders, and what our colleagues at other levels of government do as leaders to make a difference for someone in their community and the Northwest Territories. As small as it might be, that is something I try to ask myself everyday; what can I do or what have I done today that has made a difference to somebody?

Gaining better control of lifestyles and the things that hurt us are indeed things we should all be striving to deliver a stronger message to our people. We need to have them realize there is a responsibility there, and that there can and will be rewards for that. One of the most daunting things for me, coming in as a new Member, is to help turn the tide on the harmful things that are going on and are so well entrenched in our society.

My colleague for the Mackenzie Delta talked about the impact of the Klondike Gold Rush a hundred years ago, and that this is something that his people are feeling the effects of. We are dealing with things that are generational and go back centuries. Tobacco and alcohol have been around for a long time and we are not going to turn that tide instantly. It is frustrating for me, Mr. Chairman, that we hear requests from every community for more treatment centres and more funding to address these problems. We are treating the symptoms, not peeling off the layers and really addressing the foundations, which are choices individuals, communities and families make.

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Kakfwi addressed a number of things in his Sessional Statement. One area that was not fully touched on was the area of justice. I think one of the things that has continued to be destructive in our society is a clash of values between the European justice system. When an offence is committed, there must be a penalty. There has been some very interesting, encouraging work in aboriginal communities that demonstrates this is not a value the aboriginal culture share. There can be other ways of addressing this. One term is restorative justice. One aspect is when an offence is committed, the guilty person does not make restitution to the Crown in a courtroom, but rather addresses directly the victim, and tries to come to some terms where they can understand and continue to live with each other and for the criminal to turn their life around.

Mr. Chairman, the address made reference to an aspect to division and downsizing and I believe it said that it was behind us. I think one chapter is behind us, a very big one, the creation of Nunavut. But as we continue to evolve our systems of self-government, there will be other kinds of division and downsizing that this government will be dealing with. This will be to negotiate those areas the various regions of the Northwest Territories want to assume on their own.

Our workforce has been hurt by the process of division. A lot of that hurt could not be avoided. This was a very large, and in some areas a very clumsy, way of creating a new part of the country. I do not know if it has ever been done all that nicely or cleanly before. So we are going through that now ourselves.

I believe we have a continuing challenge to streamline our resources, to carefully look at where we have strengths and where we have some positions that have been vacated and need to be bolstered. I think we can do better with the cooperation of our workforce to fill in the gaps and have a streamlined, smaller government.

My constituents tell me we have a lot of boards, a lot of process, a lot of duplication in our government and in our companion governments as authority has been delegated. It has also been said that of the 42,000 people in the Northwest Territories, 42,000 of them have a veto. It is a wonderful thing for the individual to have so much influence in what goes on in the Territory. But I believe there is a fine line where leadership takes a second shift to the ability of people to make an individual difference.

They are looking for leadership and decision now. We talked about this as a result of some of the work we were able to do in Fort Providence. We have created an expectation that we have more work to do. Caucus has yet to come together to refine that job and give the government more specific direction. We will be doing that soon.

Ours is a unique government in Canada because we are still dealing with concepts on how we are going to evolve our democracy to share power and influence.

One of the most important things that this Assembly will deal with are aspects of the sunset clause, areas of sharing governance, of constitutional development and of laying the ground work for the future and continuing evolution of this government.

Caucus has more to do and we will continue that work over the course of the next few weeks and months. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Just a note to the Assembly, there is a presentation in the Great Hall on diamonds. This is not to slow down the process, but just a reminder. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is not much more for me to add. I think I have just about said everything that needs to be said on this. The Member's comment about division is correct. The previous Legislatures have found that, in spite of our own separate agendas for east and west, for Nunavut and this part of the Territory, the issue of division consumed us for many years.

In the previous Legislature, it was a constant item on the agenda that took up a lot of our time. Now that it is behind us, it is a huge issue that is no longer on our agenda. That was simply the intent of the remark. Now we can focus on governing ourselves here in the Western Territory and making plans amongst ourselves. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. General comments. The Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

There is a motion to report progress. The motion is in order and is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. We will rise and report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Delorey.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

February 23rd, 2000

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Minister's Statement 1-14(2), and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. We have a motion on the floor. We need a seconder. The Chair recognizes Mr. Steen as seconder. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

-- Applause

Good report. Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, orders of the day. Mr. Clerk.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a meeting of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow morning. Orders of the day for Friday, February 25th, 2000:

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

  1. Return to Oral Questions
  2. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  3. Oral Questions
  4. Written Questions
  5. Returns to Written Questions
  6. Replies to Opening Address
  7. Petitions
  8. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  9. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  10. Tabling of Documents
  11. Notices of Motion
  12. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  13. Motions
  14. - Motion 8-14(2): Date for Tabling of Public Accounts

  15. First Reading of Bills
  16. Second Reading of Bills
  17. - Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Education Act

    - Bill 2, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1999-2000

    - Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Financial Administration Act

    - Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act

    - Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act

  18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  19. - Minister's Statement 1-14(2): Sessional Statement

  20. Report of Committee of the Whole
  21. Third Reading of Bills
  22. Orders of the Day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Before we rise, I want to remind the Members there is a reception taking place in the Great Hall at five o'clock. All Members are invited to this presentation. This House stands adjourned until February 25, 2000 at 10:00 a.m.

-- ADJOURNMENT