This is page numbers 297 - 344 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 340

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Vician.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 340

Vician

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Specifically in terms of how we approach highway maintenance throughout the system and the priority for that, our local foremen are in direct consultation with the communities that they are generally responsible for in the general area and looking for suggestions. Probably more importantly is the issue that up to 60 percent of our highway maintenance system is operated by northern contractors. We obtain a great deal of feedback and input from our Northern industry in terms of better solutions, better approaches of how to do day-to-day and year-by-year maintenance practices. We are continually trying to identify new approaches and those approaches are brought into our routine operations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 340

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Vician. General comments or questions to the Minister? Ms. Sandy Lee.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 27th, 2000

Page 340

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a general comment because this is my first opportunity to speak on this project publicly as, while I had a chance to review this department in the Standing Committee on Governance, I just want to put on the record the importance of this project to the people of Yellowknife and my riding. I think everyone is aware I am referring to Highway No. 3, which was widely discussed and talked about during the election campaign.

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I am sort of left speechless now that I have a chance to speak about this. I know basically what I want. I have found out since I have been elected to this position, it will cost about $60 million to re-construct Highway No. 3, which is no less than a total capital budget for the whole government which is being asked for in this interim budget. So it would be highly unrealistic for me to be sitting here and demanding that $60 million. If I was to be satisfied with having it done in a three-year period, that would require me to ask for a total of all of transportation's capital budget in this interim to go to Highway No. 3, and that would be unrealistic of me to ask as well.

Although I would love to do that. I think that with the debates we have had on this topic in the last two months, it shows differences in philosophies about what money for the road is. They are two accepted philosophies. Many jurisdictions all around the world spend money on building roads to create jobs, which is obviously the need that is out there in communities. I appreciate that.

As I look at Highway No. 3, we are looking at another philosophy of building roads, which is meeting the needs based on volume. I will not sit here and try to argue that more money should go to Highway No. 3 versus other areas, but at the same time it is very important for me as a Member for Yellowknife that I put it on record that this is a very important project.

Not only the fact that it is an eyesore. The last stretch of the road to a capital in this country is not paved. It is a major inconvenience for the tourists who are travelling to the city.

At a time when there is such a major industrial project happening in this area, it is totally frustrating to be an elected official and see there is not enough money available to put in this road to facilitate that resource development.

I have asked in the House on a number of occasions for statistics on volume. I have yet to be provided with that. I know there must be some kind of statistics on volume available in the department because the Minister talks about it, other Members talk about it and the Member for North Slave tells us about it. Then it is on the newspaper every Wednesday and Friday, warning the people who are driving the road about the volume and the delay in time. I do not think I need any other evidence to tell me that this has to be a priority.

As an elected official, it is important to argue to have money allocated for his or her own riding. But at the same time, we have to be prepared to look at the big picture. This is why I have to review all options, and work with the government, if at all possible, and work with the department to figure this out. I am absolutely committed in seeing Highway No. 3 widened and reconstructed within the next three or four years.

I would like to keep my campaign promise. I do not have a lot of specific questions, other than to add that I am afraid I am not that hopeful that we are going to be able to get a lot of money out of the federal government, under the current regime we have heard so far. I think all of the Members have already stated that $150 million is not going to get us far.

At an opportune time, I would like to pursue, argue and debate vigorously to get a separate funding from the federal government, so we could have Highway No. 3 reconstructed without having to take away from the economic development potential in communities, which is being pursued for reasons other than what I am looking at.

With that, I would like to ask a very specific question about Highway No. 3, Mr. Chairman. During the review of Highway No. 3 in the standing committee, I had asked a question about why the contract for Highway No. 3 was not being let out until the end of July. The official had explained the how's of it, and he explained in detail the steps that are required to issue that contract. It is still very unclear to me. It is as clear as mud for me. I am not interested in how. I just want to know why. Why can we not have the project ready to go on May 1, 2000, instead of July 31, 2000? I really need to know. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Steen.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe this particular question came up, as to why we are not prepared to go May 1, 2000, in committee. The department attempted to explain to the Member how the department awards contracts and how we have to have a certain timeframe in order to request tenders.

Perhaps the deputy minister could attempt to explain our hopes for funding from the federal government, as well the process we use for tendering and the timelines we need to award contracts. Thank you.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Ms. Lee.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

I understand, Mr. Chairman, that the deputy minister was going to give me some information.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Sorry, Ms. Lee. Mr. Vician.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

Vician

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the first point, as the Minister indicated, our hopes are that the federal government funding that was announced in the February 28th budget, specifically for highway infrastructure on the national highway system, will provide some additional funding.

At this point, we are pursuing the issue with the federal government. There are meetings being held this week by teleconference. I understand our finance officials from the Department of Finance are meeting with the treasury board next week to discuss that, with the hope of establishing a principal, which has been communicated previously by Ministers of Finance, Ministers of Transportation, to set a minimum criteria of funding for smaller jurisdictions across the country.

With that, we hope the funding level would be much more relevant to implementation rather than a small amount that really does not mean anything in this type of a highway job, to a level in the order of a half million at least, that could make this project change in terms of the time it would take to complete. Otherwise, it becomes somewhat ineffective in terms of delivering. Adding a few dollars is not going to finish this job any sooner because of the scale of the project.

With regard to the second question, in terms of tendering practices used by the department, the department, through its industry discussions, identified the best approach of using design-build contracts for very large scale projects, especially those that are complicated by the nature of construction such as we have here between Rae and Yellowknife.

We do that to basically get the best contract options available from the industry. One contractor may identify a cheaper solution through a design approach. That is what we found in our last round when we did this type of a tender.

The tendering timetable at this point is underway. Contract requests for expressions of interest proceeded in February and have already closed. Three proponents were identified. Subject to approval of the interim appropriation, the next stage would be initiated, which is the final design-build proposal submissions by those three pre-qualified contractors. Those are expected to be submitted by the second week of June, with a contract awarded by late June, early July. Contracting to commence probably by mid-summer.

As this is a multi-year project, the contract work would proceed over the period of summer, winter and into the next season. Therefore, in terms of scheduling, it will arrive at the same completion date regardless of what approach was taken. We are going to see the best in terms of savings by having contractors provide their best approach to finishing the work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Vician. I have Mr. Lafferty.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I notice that going through the communities, the highways department goes right into town, does maintenance, sanding, et cetera. They are spending a lot of time in the communities, especially Yellowknife. They have to go right through the municipality, Giant Mine, Yellowknife Motors...I am just wondering where you put it in the budget? Can you tell me where all of the work you are doing for the municipalities is in the budget?

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Minister.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will defer that to the deputy minister for a response.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 341

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Vician.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

Vician

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The highway maintenance activity only applies to the designated public highway system, as defined under the Public Highways Act and its regulations. No maintenance occurs on municipal highways or roads.

It happens to be that in many of our communities, the highway system extends itself to within the boundaries of the municipality, but they are still designated as public highways. Each case has a different reason, the primary reason being those were sections of highway transferred from the federal government to the responsibility of the territorial government through the two specific transfers.

The item for maintenance of those activities is included within the operations and maintenance appropriation for the highways activity within the interim appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Lafferty.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the same line, is the highway department going to look at turning over the maintenance and operations on those roads within municipalities, so they can concentrate on the highways themselves? They are spending three hours sanding the roads around Yellowknife, Giant, and along the Ingraham Trail, while Highway No. 3 has not been plowed and there is no equipment on that road.

I came in this morning, and there was no equipment heading out that way. They were all heading the other way. I am just wondering if they quit wasting time within the municipalities, then maybe the highways would be a lot safer.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Steen.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will get Mr. Vician to respond to the comments from the Member.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Vician.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

Vician

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of devolving responsibility for some sections of the public highway system to municipalities, the discussion has been broached by the department with some communities in the Territories. It continues to be an issue of discussion, and will continue to be in the future with municipalities that are willing to take on the care and custody of sections of highway in the Northwest Territories.

As far as the dedication of resources, those resources are deployed each morning by our highway foremen at the various camps in the system, both contract camps and private camps. They attempt to address where they think the highest priority was for that given morning. Obviously, they try to wrap things up as quickly as they can. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Lafferty.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Maybe the highways department might look at putting Highway No. 3 maintenance out for tender so it could be well-maintained. Right now, since January, I have been complaining about the highway and it has only been plowed three times.

There is a lot of money going to operations and maintenance. I just want to know where the money is going because I do not see it going on that highway. So if you can tell me where the money is going, I will be happy and I can tell my people, oh, the money is being spent right. What are you doing with the money you say you have for operations and maintenance? Thank you.

Funding Discrepancies
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 342

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Steen.