Good afternoon. We are dealing with Bill 6, Interim Appropriation Act, 2000-2001. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend the committee continue consideration of Bill 6, Interim Appropriation Act, 2000-2001, along with Committee Report 2-14(2), Committee Report 3-14(2), and Committee Report 4-14(2) concurrently. Specifically, that we consider the appropriations for Public Works and Services, followed by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. After that, the Legislative Assembly. Should we have the will after that, perhaps resume Health and Social Services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

At this time, I would like to recognize a former Member of the House, Mr. James Rabesca. Welcome, James.

-- Applause

With that, we will take a short break.

-- Break

I would like to call the committee back to order. Before the break, we decided to start with Bill 6, with the review of the Department of Public Works and Services. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he has any opening remarks. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Chairman, I will keep my remarks today brief. I am pleased to present the Department of Public Works and Services interim appropriation for the first four months of the fiscal year 2000-2001. The budget for operations and maintenance is $12.3 million, which is 34 percent of the Department of Public Works and Services preliminary planning target.

This percentage is in line with historical expenditures for the first third of previous fiscal years. The major components are $4.2 million for salaries and benefits, $4.5 million for lease payments and $1.8 million for maintenance.

The capital interim appropriation amount is based on projects that need to begin before the end of July. There is a list of these projects in the papers before you.

Mr. Chairman, this plan was built from a review of the department's expenditure history, as well as an estimate of new year requirements. Overall, the proposed interim budget is comparable to the current year's budget. No major changes have been proposed for the new fiscal year.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remarks. I would be happy to answer any questions the committee members may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the committee responsible for overseeing this department have any remarks? Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee met with the Minister and his staff on March 17, 2000, to review the proposed 2000-2001 interim appropriation for the department. The committee made note of the following issues.

The petroleum revolving fund has a limit of $5 million. The purpose of the fund is to subsidize the storage and distribution of petroleum products in 17 remote communities in the Northwest Territories. Committee members, in light of the recent increase in the price of oil, the petroleum revolving fund may have exceeded its $5 million limit.

The department replied that the fund currently has a deficit of $2.8 million and is projected to add another $1 million in debt for the upcoming fiscal year. The Minister further explained that increases in the price of petroleum products in the department's client communities averted any chance of the fund exceeding its cap.

Committee members commented that the prices of petroleum products were already high and the recent price increase made by the department did not help any. Many consumers are also not aware of subsidies for fuel.

The committee noted that the high price of fuel especially affects the elderly and those on income support. This puts extra strain on the resources of the government's social envelope. Many consumers are also not aware of subsidies for fuel.

Committee members recommended that absorbing any increases in the price of fuel may very well mean savings for the government in other activities, such as within the social envelope.

At the request of the committee, the Minister agreed to provide the fuel pricing rationale for review by Members. The committee also recommended that subsidies for fuel be clearly identified for the consumer.

Privatization of Petroleum Products Division (PPD)

Committee members were concerned that if the PPD were to be privatized, it should be sold in its entirety to one corporation, thus ensuring economies of scale are maintained. Any community not supplied by the potential purchaser will require further fuel price subsidization by the government, which will no longer have any economy of scale of its own. The result of not selling the entire operation to one entity would most likely mean higher levels of government expenditures to maintain an affordable level of fuel pricing in unserviced communities.

Committee members also noted that by selling the PPD, subsidies to the fuel price might no longer be possible, as the government will no longer be in the petroleum storage and distribution business.

The government, at the request of the committee, agreed that if the petroleum products division was to be considered for sale, a call for proposals would be publicly advertised, and the division be sold as a single entity.

Committee members raised the issue of renovating the Laing Building, one that has a long history.

Further, the committee pointed out that there is much unutilized office space being leased by the government to which the potential and existing tenants of the Laing Building could move.

Furthermore, members suggested that all options should be considered if larger or more specialized spaces are required, including private sector investments.

The Minister, at the request of the committee, agreed to provide the members with a rationale and a briefing by department staff to explain the proposal for further renovations for the Laing Building.

Currently the government leases warehouses and other costly storage space to store vast amounts of records. See page 1, operations and maintenance, departmental submissions, PWS, 2000- 2001 interim appropriation.

The committee noted that a more current records storage system, including microfiche be considered, to ensure better use of existing space and perhaps a more manageable records system.

Further, the committee noted that this is not a new area as previous Legislative Assemblies have made this recommendation as well.

Committee members recommended that the government's record system might be better managed and operated with the adoption of a more current records management system.

However, the department replied that although it provides the lead for records management for all government departments, the departments are responsible for their own records management.

Further, the department summarized that the government is only in the infancy of its records management and will take some progress before a more current records management system can be considered.

That concludes the committee's comments, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in any witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I would like to bring in witnesses.

Does the committee agree that the Minister can bring in his witnesses?

Sergeant-At-Arms, could you please escort the witness in?

Would the Minister introduce his witnesses for the record?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my right is Mr. Bruce Rattray, deputy minister of Public Works and Services. On my left is Mr. Brian Austin, director of petroleum products.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Welcome, witnesses. Are there any general comments for the Minister regarding the Department of Public Works and Services? Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The Minister responsible for the Department of Public Works and Services, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will ask Mr. Bruce Rattray to reply to that, as it applies to all of our leases and operations and maintenance costs, both department-owned buildings as well as leases. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Rattray.