Page 7, Department of Public Works and Services, total, Department of Public Works and Services, capital, $840,000. Agreed?

I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to present to the Legislative Assembly, the 2000-2001 Interim Appropriation for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Mr. Chairman, as you know, and Members of this House are aware, two of the most basic needs are food and shelter. It is the second basic need that the Housing Corporation works to provide.

The corporation is requesting a contribution from this government of $17,886,000; $9,789,000 for capital programs and $8,097,000 for operations and maintenance. The capital of $9,789,000 constitutes 45 percent of the 2000-2001 main estimates. It is normal for the corporation to spend almost half of its capital budget within the first four months because the majority of the building materials are transported during that time.

The operations and maintenance total of $8,097,000 is 37 percent of the 2000-2001 main estimates plus forced growth of $113,000 due to pension reform.

Over 90 percent of the operations and maintenance capital being requested will ultimately be spent on projects that will be community based.

Mr. Chairman, the corporation is at the final stage of the 2000 housing needs survey, which I expect to table later this sitting. The corporation will be using the needs survey as one of its key documents in developing a strategic plan to decrease housing needs in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, the corporation is at the beginning stages of developing new goals and strategies that better incorporate community input. The president and I have traveled to many communities to see first hand what the housing problems are. We will continue to travel until all communities have been visited by either Mr. Beaulieu or myself to seek their input in addressing their housing needs. We have already begun discussions with several communities on ways that we can work together as partners in developing a strategy to address housing needs at the community level.

Mr. Chairman, the corporation will continue with its provincial and territorial counterparts to lobby the federal government to at least maintain the current federal funding provided by the federal government.

Mr. Chairman, the corporation plans to work with the communities and other government departments to ensure that the money spent first addresses housing needs and secondly, creates some positive economic impacts for the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my comments and we will be pleased to answer any questions the House may have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Social Programs met with the Minister and his officials on March 17, 2000, and would like to offer comment on the following issues of importance noted during the committee's review of the interim appropriations.

Allocation Of Seniors' Housing

Committee members are very concerned over the annual indecision on the placement of seniors' housing between the Department of Health and Social Services and the Housing Corporation. Members believe this indecision could lead to possible construction delays because of shipping deadlines being missed. The indecision also raises the question of potential political interference in the choice of the community that receives the seniors' housing.

The Housing Corporation believes that the housing needs survey, in conjunction with community consultation on the part of the Housing Corporation, should be adequate to determine which community requires the facility. The committee strongly encourages the Housing Corporation to work with the Department of Health and Social Services to resolve this issue. Members look forward to positive news during the review of the business plans.

Seniors' Housing Issues

Members have heard that in some communities there are units dedicated to seniors that are vacant. According to what Members have heard, the vacancies relate to design flaws in the units themselves and the lack of consultation with elders in the community as to whether they wanted to move into new units in the first place.

The members have heard that the standard design for the seniors' fourplexes means the unit's entrances are set too high for seniors to access safely. This may have been appropriate as the design standard when the Housing Corporation was building in the High Arctic, but lacks relevance for construction below the treeline.

It is apparent to the committee that the seniors' fourplexes may not be appropriate in smaller, predominately aboriginal communities, where traditional activities are still a way of life. Some committee members believe that it would be better to build small standalone houses in these types of communities utilizing simple technologies that the elders understand.

Members have heard of instances where the lack of consultation between the local housing authorities and the elders has meant reluctance on the part of seniors to move into newly constructed seniors' facilities. The design of the units does not incorporate adequate areas for elders to store equipment to participate in traditional activities. This also contributes to the reluctance on the part of seniors to move into seniors' units.

This still leaves the issue of what to do with the vacant seniors' units in the communities. Committee members believe that if there are no seniors in need of the units that they should be turned into social housing. We are still facing a housing crisis, particularly for single-parent families and these units, and any other surplus government units, should be utilized. There is also the option of these units being used to house teachers or health care professionals in communities where there is no viable rental market.

Leaseback of Social Housing from Local Development Corporations

The committee is very interested in the possibility of leveraging more money for social housing by entering into long-term leaseback arrangements with local or aboriginal development corporations for the construction of additional social housing units. It is clear to the committee that the federal government's withdrawal from the funding of social housing has meant the territorial government has been playing a desperate game of catch-up in trying to meet the housing needs of its residents. Innovative approaches, such as leasebacks with development corporations, will help the Housing Corporation stretch its always-diminishing dollars. Committee members look forward to discussing this issue further during the business plan review.

Repair/Maintenance of Social Housing

Committee members are interested in reviewing the Housing Corporation's plan for the repair and maintenance of social housing over the three-year period, once it is complete.

Several committee members were concerned that the Extended Downpayment Assistance Program was not meeting the needs of residents of our smallest communities. A "catch-22" situation exists for residents who make too much money to qualify for downpayment assistance directly from the Housing Corporation. These residents also cannot qualify for a regular mortgage from the banks because they do not hold title to the land on which they propose to build a house.

Committee members believe that a review of the EDAP Program as it relates to residents of smaller communities is in order. This review should include consideration of how the Housing Corporation can help those residents who make sufficient money to look after their own housing needs, but cannot access Housing Corporation programs or bank mortgages.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my immediate right is Mr. Jeff Anderson, our chief financial officer. To my immediate left is the president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Tom Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister responsible for Finance is in a seeming rush to get through these departments.

Mr. Chairman, I would just like some clarification in doing the interim appropriation. Could the Minister indicate when the latest housing survey will be done and the results published? So that we can see how we are going to move ahead in addressing the need and what that need is? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In my opening remarks, I stated that the housing needs survey will be tabled later in this sitting. I would ask the present Housing Corporation to answer any questions specific to any details the Members may have. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I have some questions in regard to the design and building of units in the communities. In our committee report, we raised the concern, especially with our seniors' facilities, that there are a number of issues that may be of concern. The consultation of seniors, the actual design structure of the units being such that there are things like furnaces near the doors.

It is difficult for seniors living there because of the location of the buildings, to access any land where they could have fire pits and take care of any outdoor activities they would like to undertake. I was wondering if the Minister could speak to those general issues and see if he could alleviate our concern. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can certainly present the Member with the specifics to our community visits. In our travels, we spoke to a number of seniors, about 19 to date. And, yes, there were some noticeable design impairments as we assessed some of the homes.

Again, our future plans are to involve the local seniors to help us design what we feel is their need, not our need. Although we have spoken to them about remaining consistent with the Housing Corporation policies in terms of public and personal hygiene. That includes running water and sewage pumps.

There were some noticeable deficiencies again in the heights of the buildings. We confirm that. We are trying to involve the community leadership in the overall planning, design and construction of the units. We feel there was some concern from community members that they needed to be independent and have individual homes. We have raised that with the president of the corporation in follow up meetings.

There is a whole range of new ideas, a whole range of new approaches we have discussed initially with Cabinet in trying to address all those concerns the Member has expressed. I would like to ask the president if he has anything to add to my comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.