This is page numbers 425 - 456 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

March 29th, 2000

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments are to the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. On many occasions, Mr. Speaker, the government has granted land use permits, including timber-cutting permits, without adequate consultation with the local communities and stakeholders.

For example, recently in the settlement of Enterprise, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development identified areas in their timber application that may be of concern to the public. These concerns were listed in the application to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review board as required. The board in turn informed the community of Enterprise that it would hold public hearings on the matter in September of 1999. But in August of 1999, the community was informed that the decision had already been made. As a result, the community did not have a chance to have their concerns heard.

Mr. Speaker, we need to make sure the views and concerns of the residents of the Northwest Territories are incorporated in the decision-making process that may affect their well-being. For Enterprise to be left out of the decision making process that deals directly with their community is unforgivable.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister where is the accountability that this government is so proud of? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If they were not properly consulted, then we should apologize to the community of Enterprise.

On the point of accountability, I have offered to present myself to the community of Enterprise and provide full accountability. We will do that in the next couple of weeks. Thank you.

Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Consultation with the stakeholders has to be a required component of the final approval process for significant government initiatives.

There have been occasions where the government has granted land-use permits in areas where the negotiation process is still going on. Mr. Speaker, how do the government's development policies ensure that the interest of other stakeholders, especially communities and aboriginal groups, are respected and protected? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In some cases, there are existing businesses which have been set-up and established, expecting to get annual allocations of timber in order for their businesses to continue. We have always respected that. We have worked as best we can with communities to try to develop management plans so that annual allocations that are sustainable could be identified, so we can manage those resources the best we can.

In some instances, because licenses have been issued and in existence for a number of years, and it is our duty as governments to respect that. In fact, there are existing licenses out there that compel us to move in a way that complies with the needs those licenses create. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development tell me how much time is usually given for communities, aboriginal groups, and other stakeholders to consider initiatives brought forth by his department? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know exactly the number of days that are set out as legal obligations. It is my view that our resources in the North, renewable or non-renewable, require a plan on the part of people in the communities and regions. If there is a plan, we do not have to consult continuously on things that go on from year to year. We need to have a management plan in place, so that people can be reassured that they know exactly what goes on in their areas, in their communities, from year to year without any surprises. In the absence of a plan, it becomes difficult for governments to operate and assure people that resources and development are being managed in a clear, consistent way. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today, also goes to the Minister responsible for Resources Wildlife and Economic Development. Mr. Speaker, I think that when we look at our economic picture and our potential for economic development, it is so frustrating that we do not have control over all leverages that are necessary to build our economy. I refer specifically to the mineral resource potential in the Great Slave area. I would think that in any other jurisdiction, like Alberta, for example, where one is looking at economic potential that we are looking at in diamond mines, with billions of dollars of revenue potential, we should be able to find some money in government, to put towards social and economic infrastructure, such as setting up a training program or building the roads, or even building the bridge in this global warming condition that we are facing, and yet we have a very lopsided economic picture in the North.

We have no money to put this infrastructure in place. The companies are willing to come and invest and extract the resources and the money goes to the federal government. I think this lopsided picture is very clear. My question is, I do know that the Premier has engaged in explaining this situation to the federal government, and I would like to confirm if this is the kind of discussion he had with the Minister, and what his future plans are in making it more clear to them and meeting with them again and about coming up with a focused training program or world project program or some kind of program that links to the economic potential that we have here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Aside from the need for policy, which I think we can arrive at in the future in partnership with aboriginal governments, we also need the support of the Government of Canada. Our government worked very hard in the last month and a half to get the federal government to notice and pay attention to this emerging, beautiful vision that we started talking about. I must say that we are happy to say again, that we have captured the attention and the interest of the Prime Minister and he has no difficulty in talking enthusiastically about the same type of vision that we have laid out here.

The Finance Minister, Paul Martin, was also, putting it mildly, captivated by the vision we spoke of in our first meeting with him. Mr. Nault is dealing with us in the same way, very eager to move on discussions on devolution and revenue sharing, setting up the inter-governmental forum, trying to move the northern agenda along. Do something real, is the language that he uses.

We have arranged a meeting with the Prime Minister for next week. There is a commitment to meet on Tuesday, so we will have the opportunity to elaborate formally for the first time with the Prime Minister, what exactly it is that we seek, and what it is that we need in terms of support from the federal government in order to make this vision, this dream, a reality in very short order. Thank you.

Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I could ask a very specific question that I would like the Minister to tell Minister Martin. The latest figure I have seen in terms of the mineral development potential with the three diamond mines is about $15 billion. I may be wrong on that and I realize that not all that money is going to go to the federal government, and surely we know that hardly any of that comes to the Territorial government directly, but the potential seems huge. Highway No. 3 will cost $60 million to be reconstructed, and when you look at the big scheme of things, that is not such a big amount of money and yet, that is all of the capital budget we have in the interim budget this year that we have just passed.

I guess what I am saying is, $60 million is 100 percent of the capital budget that we are going to approve in the interim and yet, that is so minuscule in comparison to the billions that are to be made in the diamond mines. I wonder if the Minister would go to the Minister responsible for Finance and say, "give us $60 million, because you are going to make $100 billion or something from the diamond mines." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the first time in the history of Canada, we have suggested to the Prime Minister, Mr. Martin and Mr. Nault, that we will have a territory that can contribute more to Canada in terms of revenue and raising of taxes through resource development than it actually gets from Canada. We will become, with the development of the diamond mines and a natural gas pipeline, the first "have" territory in the history of Canada. The returns to Canada for what we see as short-term investment preparing us for pipeline construction through training, through infrastructure investment, through a range of other short-term dollar investments, the returns will be significant. I think this is what captures the interest of the federal government, certainly, the Prime Minister.

Many years ago, he came to the North as Minister of Northern Affairs and served in the portfolio for six years. He saw that many of our aboriginal people needed to establish offices, to set up programs of community development, to work on our education levels and create an opportunity for us to settle our claims, by setting up the comprehensive claims process and to create opportunities to negotiate self-government agreements. These were all done with a view that in the future, aboriginal people will have the confidence, the resources and the means by which to initiate partnerships and projects that would place them as significant players and beneficiaries of resource development here in the Northwest Territories. Our Prime Minister sees that and wants to reap the benefits of the initial work he did, which started back in the early 70s. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that we have the federal Ministers now paying attention to us, but when he is in a meeting with these Ministers, will the Premier tell him that we have this great mineral potential north of our capital, but this place is connected by a country road that has two different speed limits for the small cars and big trucks. We have trucking companies, we have transportation that lays down tonnes of mud to keep the road even and then the trucking companies have to come and wash it all off here. We have the road but it is not ready for this kind of development.

Will the Minister please tell them, if we are going to see the kind of potential that is possible, we need $60 million to build that road.

Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the comment and question. It is my view that the important thing is to elaborate on the vision that we have as a government, as a northern people, as aboriginal people. Once we have captured the attention and developed a partnership with the federal government and aboriginal governments, then we can start developing the specific picture that the vision encompasses.

There would be perhaps a natural gas pipeline, a highway, equity in diamond mines, massive training programs, numerous business opportunities that would place aboriginal people, not on a margin but in a central significant portion of a northern economy in the very near future. I think once we have an agreement, when we see something that both governments appreciate and support, then we will start to work on the different parts of this vision that need to be supported, and how we will engage together to make this vision become a reality. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is clear to us that we need a non-renewable resource policy. As we strive to get greater control of our tax and royalty revenues from extraction of our non-renewable resources, I am worried about fluctuating commodity prices. One suggestion is to set up a heritage trust for these revenues to ensure our programs and services are not way out in front of our revenues. Would the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development consider approaching the federal government to discuss setting up such a heritage trust? Thank you.