Contributions, total grants and contributions, $11,556,000. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under page 11-21, under industry assistance, there is $1.5 million in the revised estimates for last year, and just $180,000 this year. Could the Minister advise me what the $1.5 million was spent on last year? What is the intention to spend the $180,000 on this year?

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, there was $1.5 million in the estimates. The actual expenditure was $734,000, which was to assist Giant Mine. The $180,000 in this year's main estimates is for the cost associated with the land swap at Giant Mine. Thank you.

Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have Community Futures for $782,000. This is the contribution amount. Can the Minister advise me how much is actually spent supporting the offices? What I am trying to point out is, are we giving away as much money as we spend on running the offices under Community Futures?

Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the amount that is here, the $782,000, is their O and M for operating their offices. It is roughly $150,000 to $160,000 per region. I can give you the specific amounts by region if you like. Mr. Chairman, the North Slave region, $150,000; the South Slave, $160,000; the Deh Cho, $150,000; Inuvik, $162,000; and Sahtu, $160,000. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell me how many people are in each office in those regions?

Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If we take the deputy's suggestion that there is an average of two per office in the five regions, then that means we have approximately ten staff administering these programs. I guess my point was that if you take an average salary of $60,000 or $65,000, you have either $600,000 or $650,000 in administrative costs to give away $782,000. The point I am trying to make is there has been a real significant reduction since 1998-99. In our books, we show the actuals as being $2.5 million in contributions through this program in that year. What I would like to suggest is that it might make more sense, rather than having the number of different programs, why not move all of the money for business development into community futures? Let us have community based organizations look at applications for money and make sure they really make sense. Take it away from the regional offices and put it in the hands of community-based organizations to administer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think there may be some confusion about the amount of money the Community Futures Organizations have to administer. The $782,000 is their O and M. That is the money they use to run their offices. The amount of money they each have varies, because this program goes back to an old federal program. Some of them have well over a million dollars in a revolving fund that they loan out. The Inuvik and the South Slave offices are probably the two best examples of the large ones. Some of the smaller ones have in the neighbourhood of $500,000 to administer. They are administering more money than what would appear here.

In terms of rolling this together in some way, I take the Member's advice. As we look at options and ways of streamlining the whole thing, we will take that into consideration. Thank you.

Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had misunderstood. I thought that this was money that was going to be added to them so they could have a larger revolving fund. I know in speaking to the people in Yellowknife, they have no money to lend out because it has all been lent. The amount of money that gets paid back on a regular basis does not give them enough money on an annual basis to make any significant new loans. I had assumed we were increasing the amount of money they had to put into their revolving funds. Unfortunately, it makes it even worse than what I thought it was. I would like to speak very strongly for moving some of this money out of the Business Development Fund and into Community Futures, or to have regional groups take a look at some of the disbursement.

Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, to provide some clarification, because we were part-way through the process of providing adequate funding for each of these groups to loan out, when our Northern Employment Strategy came to an end, we had to stop it. That is why you have some with $500,000 and some with well over one million.

What we are doing now, in order to begin the integration of these agencies, and also to give Community Futures more money to loan out, we are making it possible for them to borrow from the BCC and use that money for loans. They will be accessing BCC money. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, going back to my previous questions on the Business Development Fund, the Minister has provided me with the program summary for the fund. I noticed in here, under community initiatives, there are differing equity levels the recipients must contribute. For something like the DDC, and the contributions there for a chiefs meeting, do they qualify for level one, two or three, in terms of the equity they have to put in for such a project?

Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the eligibility they would have to put in would be dependent on which communities they came from, whether they were level one, two or three. I believe the reference to group one, two or three is the same as the old concept of levels one, two and three. If they are from a level three community, they would put in five percent and be eligible for the balance.