Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as I said earlier, we will do that in consultation with the communities and the leaders. We have a team who are going to Inuvik and Tsiigehtchic July 10th and 11th. At that time, they will discuss it and decide on the course they want to follow. As I say, it depends on the situation. Sometimes you do not want to wait 48 hours. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do not know if the communities know there is this 24 hour timeframe. What the department says in these meetings is news to me. I have been here for almost five years, and this is the first time I have heard about it, through this review, and only when I asked a question.

I do not think people in the communities know their responsibility only falls within a 24 hour period. After it surpasses that, you have no jurisdiction, no say in what is going to happen regarding fire response.

We have been doing consultations, and I cannot make a decision until I talk to so and so...we have to get out of that mindset and do what is best for the people we represent. I am here representing the people in the Mackenzie Delta saying 24 hours is not sufficient. People in the government do not think we, as MLAs who are elected by people to represent them, are sufficient for this House, unless we have to pass motions and put it on the floor for debate, then maybe we will make some changes. Unless we do an in-depth review of the whole forest fire management policy, maybe we will see some real...I am asking for a simple change in the amount of time the communities have to respond to fires. Increase it from 24 hours to 48 hours. You can do it right here, Mr. Handley. Will you do it?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I said before, we will do it in consultation with the communities and leaders. We have people out doing consultation all the time in the summer. If any communities want to review this immediately, we will let them know this kind of thing can be considered. We will do it as the communities and the leaders agree. I think it is better to do it that way and have their input into this change than for me to just arbitrarily do it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I feel that is not sufficient. I may be moving a motion that we either put it in writing, so the Minister can see that I am serious, but I do not believe the excuse to say I am going to go out and consult is going to make any difference. I need a commitment from this Minister saying they will do something. Consulting is one thing, but doing it is a whole different matter. I do not think this is a big issue. The Minister has the ability to do it right here. Will he consider making an amendment to allow communities to have more sufficient time to respond to fires than just the 24 hours they are presently allowed?

Mr. Handley.

Just to be clear. We do not take the control out of the hands of the community after 24 hours. What we do at 24 hours is a reassessment of the fire situation. If the fire is not out, our people sit down with the community and decide what the process is going to be from there on. All we are doing is a reassessment. I am reluctant to wait 48 hours to reassess all fires in the Northwest Territories. In 48 hours, they could be pretty big fires, and we may have some huge fires on our hands. Before we do more than reassess it in 24 hours, I would like to meet with the communities and hear what they have to say. I do not think it is the same across the Northwest Territories.

This 24 hour detection, the whole plan here has been developed in consultation with the communities already. I cannot just start making changes.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. We are still on page 11-25, forest management, total operating expense $29,164,000. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell us when was the last review with the communities in regard to the forest fire management policy? When was there consultation on that policy?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

If you are talking about a formal review of the forest fire management policy, it was originally done three years after the transfer. The last full comprehensive review of the policy was done about three years ago. However, on a continual basis, we have people out consulting with communities, and making changes and adjustments depending on the fire year for that season. To start making changes without getting back to the communities would be risky. I do not think they would be very happy with us if we started doing that. Nothing much has changed in the last three years. I do not think there is a pressing need for a review of the whole policy at this point. I think the process of community consultations is working well. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It might be working well for the Minister, but it sure is tough to be an MLA when there is a fire in your riding and you are getting a lot of heat from your constituents. Basically, you go to the Fort Smith fire centre and you can talk to the head honcho there and his attitude is, "Sorry, we do not have the money, and we have better things to spend our money on rather than a fire up in the Mackenzie Delta." My view is that this type of attitude from the government has not changed.

Consultation to you is, "Oh, after the fire is over we are going to come in and say, what should have we done?" after the fact. That, for me, is not consultation. People want to be involved in the fire that is affecting their communities from the time the fire starts until it is put out, not leave a fire to burn for two-and-a-half months and then come back to the community and say, "Sorry, the fire is out of control, we are going to have to evacuate." Is that consultation?

My view is that because of the situation I found myself in last year with the forest fire in Tsiigehtchic, the fire burned for two-and-a-half months. The only time it became an issue to this government was when the Dempster Highway was threatened because they had to shut the road down, and the NorthwestTel Tower that was there. The people in this community who had to live with the smoke day in and day out, were not a priority with this government. For you to say that consultation took place, we do not want to do it again, is exactly the cop out that I am saying that this government has. They have to seriously allow communities to make decisions for themselves on issues that affect them.

Forest fires affect people in the communities, not people sitting in the forest fire centre in Fort Smith. They are the ones making the decisions. That has to change. You talk about forest fires, and sure, forest fires have happened. A large portion of these forest fires that have happened over these last couple of years, especially in the Mackenzie Delta, even in the Sahtu region, have burned large sections of lands that are privately owned lands under land claim agreements. The land claim agreements say that they can be compensated for the loss of forest items.

Maybe the aboriginal groups should consider filing a lawsuit against this government because you did not respond to these fires that affected the forest that stands on private lands. Under the agreement, you are responsible for that.

I feel that this idea that we have to go back and consult. It has been going on for years. We have some major costs to this government because of some forest fires that have basically reached a point where the cost of evacuating communities; it happened in the Sahtu, it happened in Yellowknife; it happened in the Mackenzie Delta region in the last number of years. The cost of that comes to a point where we depend on technology that comes out of Fort Smith, and not the people who live in the communities and on the ground. That has to change. I feel that the argument to say that, "Oh, we are going to go back and consult again", is that we did not do it right the last time.

I will ask the Minister again. Will he consider allowing the communities more responsibility with regard to forest management?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I would like to remind Members to direct their questions to the Chair. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman. I have said we will. I have said we are doing consultation. We are going to Inuvik and Tsiigehtchic. We are going to all the communities in the Gwich'in area, if you want, on July 10th and 11th.

We did have, a few years ago, a program that we called a Community Response Action Program, where we gave communities the authority to manage the fires in whatever way they wanted, whichever fires they wanted, within a fixed period of time. I do not think any communities took us up on that. I am ready to revisit that, as well, if that is the direction, to give the communities the authority and accountability for the first few fires. They can choose which ones to fight.

The last time we had it, no one took us up on it. In terms of allowing the communities more autonomy, yes, I definitely will look at that.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell the House how much money communities are allocated to respond to fires?

Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, we have $8.6 million in fire suppression, and that is not allocated out to the communities. It is allocated depending on the need, because it can differ. One year we can have lots of rain in the Delta and everything burning up in the south, or vice versa. There is $8.6 million, and it is allocated based on the fire season and what is happening. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell us, of the $8.6 million, how much of that is spent on the fire centre in Fort Smith, the water bombers, and the contract we have for aircraft?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.