This is page numbers 185 - 240 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 233

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the residency matter, I can have Mr. Cleveland meet with Mr. Bell to discuss the particular students who may be under that impression. I think that it is important we ensure the correct information has gotten out.

With regard to the other issue Mr. Bell is speaking of, the exact cost, we have looked at this and spent some time on it. We estimate that it could cost anywhere between an extra one million and one and a half million dollars for the first year, in order to do the program Mr. Bell is speaking of. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 233

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you, Minister Ootes. We now have Mr. Nitah.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 233

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to follow up on earlier suggestions that I made by reinforcing the need not only for cross cultural training for teachers that are coming into the community, but also for parents about the importance of education, their roles and responsibility in supporting their children in learning.

The other area I would like to touch on is the area that has been touched on by my colleague, Ms. Lee. It is the education for work. It is great to have Arctic College and Aurora College doing training, but I think we have to start earlier. I think that we have to start in junior high.

We all know what our economic base in the Northwest Territories is. We have a document that has been developed by all the people in the Northwest Territories in one form or another. I think you should be able to take this document and try to incorporate some of the information into the education system.

We should start teaching our children about tourism, about marketing, about geology, about different mine methods, how you take it out, et cetera. I think that will help students get motivated at an earlier age to tie their education to a possible job at the end.

We want to get devolution happening from the federal government to the North, but there are no guarantees. I think if we start incorporating our economic base into the education system, we may find that we retain more people in the Northwest Territories, people who come back after school and stay and work in the areas I just mentioned.

We could develop the curriculum in partnership with industry, communities, et cetera. I thought that would be a good suggestion. I am sure a kid in grade 8 would love to learn a lot about diamonds or tourism. It is something that is real. It is something you can take to a higher education. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Minister Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The document Mr. Nitah is referring to is the economic report by the panel that was set up a year ago. It is an extremely important document. I have had a cursory glance at it and have not studied it in-depth.

One of the principles that the individuals that headed this up, Mr. Nerysoo and Mr. Bealieau, who were the co-chairs of this, emphasized the need for attention to be paid to the human resource development of the territory. Specifically, they have recommendations in this report with regard to what areas this education can address.

I think it is worthy and will require us to really work on this. It provides us with a challenge to incorporate a lot of this, as Mr. Nitah suggests. To incorporate into this particular department in part and parcel of the workings of this department, which I think he is correct in.

We already have some programs, and I should mention those, that we have technology studies in schools. We need to work on this as our resources become more available.

We have the Schools North Apprenticeship Program for our students. If I recall correctly how it works, they get credits for being out in the workforce and they gain experience. Again, an example which I can relate to in our community is the Bridges Program offered by St. Patrick's High School that provides students a working opportunity in a particular business. There needs to be that tie-in in all areas, from industry into schools and schools into industry. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Nitah.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will make this my last comment. I am not sure where this issue is at in our curriculum, but throughout Canada, there is a shortage for trades people. There used to be work experience in shop when I was in high school. I am not sure if it is still there. I have not seen it in the communities. I think it is very important we continue in that area. Not everybody wants to sit in an office. Not everybody is going to do their commerce through the Internet and what not. There are going to be individuals who want to go out there and hammer nails for a living. We have to give them that opportunity.

That is one of the strongest economies in the Northwest Territories. For an individual to live in the small community, a lot of them have to expect to fly to work and spend several weeks there. Those are just basic skills that get taught in shops. It could be wood-working. It could be machinery, welding, et cetera, but those are introductory to trades. Once you get through high school, it might get a little higher, and then into the college system.

Maybe the Minister can answer that question for me. Is shop still being taught in school? The areas I mentioned, carpentry, welding, electrical, et cetera. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, shop is being taught in some schools, but not all. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Nitah.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With the statistics we have in education where grade 10 seems to be the wall that many of our students are hitting, they are having a hard time getting beyond that. Our financial situation is cutting back our ABE budget by a large percentage, I think it is important that this kind training and education, the basics in the trades, are taught in junior high. That is where it should begin. If students are not getting beyond grade 9 and these are only taught in grade 10, they are not even getting that. They are really getting short-changed throughout.

The Minister responded to a question raised by my colleague, Mr. Roland, who stated that it seems kids are being pushed to the next grade level even though they do not qualify to keep in pace with their age and they are hitting the wall because of that. Mr. Ootes replied by stating the exact opposite.

The fact remains that grade 10 seems to be the wall that a large percentage of our population is hitting. I think it is important that junior high is used to a greater extent in the areas of trades training. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have started to talk about career planning with students in junior high. I think it is an important area for us to start looking at. It has been introduced, if I understand correctly from the department, but it certainly is an important area, the area of trades and what we can do. As I mentioned earlier, there are some areas such as technology studies in schools, apprenticeship programs, but it does need ongoing surveillance and attention. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 234

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Krutko.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question is about the quality of education we are providing in many of our small communities. I have seen very few graduates in the riding I have represented for the last five years.

Is it a problem with the system or is it a question of the lack of resources? I think the answer is both. If you talk to parents and students in the different communities, it takes them a lot longer to go from grade 9 to graduating from grade 12 than other students in the larger centres. One of the reasons is because of the curriculum that is being developed and having the resources to deliver different programs, especially when you are dealing with the math 30s, chemistry and biology and those types of programs, which are not available in many of our small communities.

In some cases, the students are the ones who have to put together or develop their curriculum or course loads. They have to go out and find the materials themselves so they can try to graduate. The frustration you hear from parents in these communities is why is it that it takes a student in the smaller communities somewhere from four to five and a half years to graduate, yet in the larger centres, it is only a matter of three years?

Much of it depends on the number of credits that are needed to be able to graduate from grade 12 and get the course load that you need to go on.

I believe that is one area that has to be looked at. Do you have any statistics regarding the number of graduates and where they are graduating? Why does it take so long for a student from a small community to graduate compared to a student from a large centre?

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there were several questions there. On the statistics on graduates, we have those and we can make those available to the Member.

With regard to the question as to why it takes longer in the communities, we do not have a quick answer on that particular one.

On the variety of programs available in the communities, I understand what the Member is saying. We have been working on the distance education system. It was piloted this past spring with a pilot project out of Norman Wells. It has proven to be very successful. It had the teacher in Normal Wells delivering a northern studies program. There were a number of students who participated in that in various communities. I believe, and I could be corrected on this, but one was in Aklavik, Yellowknife, Hay River, and I cannot remember the others.

The feedback we received was that it was very successful and well-received. From there, we signed a memorandum of understanding with the Calgary school board to develop and deliver a possibility of 30 more programs. The curriculum accessibility for students will increase as time goes, and will be more available as of this fall for some students.

This summer, we are training ten teachers to be educator supervisors, and we will continue that training program throughout the year. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Krutko.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has the department looked at schools that may be having problems? Especially where you see communities who may not have had graduates since the establishment of the high schools in the smaller communities, yet no graduate has come out of those different schools.

We do put money into allowing teachers to teach in the high schools in a lot of our communities, but if we are not getting results at the end of the day and we are not seeing graduates coming out of these schools, especially for grade 12, there is something wrong with the system.

Has the department looked at the different communities that have seen this problem, where students have to go away to graduate because they feel they will not be able to do it in the smaller communities?

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have looked at this in conjunction with the DECs, the district education councils, and there has been some experience that when students leave their home community, they have not been that successful. There is a desire with grade extensions to have students stay at home.

I can give the example of Holman as one, where students were attending school in Kugluktuk. There was a tremendous drop-out for the past several years. Each time the school year started, we experienced a drop-out rate of substantial proportions. There was a desire on the part of the community to have grade extensions in that community. The success rate in the communities is starting to improve. One of the communities that had ten enrollments, I believe it was two years ago, this year had 30 enrollments. It is an example of the type of interest that is starting to show in the whole area of having grade extensions in schools in communities.

With regard to the success of that, in some areas they are more successful than others. Some who have had recent grade extensions are going through some growing pains. There are some areas that need to be addressed, but we feel that those that have been established longer are starting to have some success. Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not believe the Minister answered my question. My question was have they done a review of those high schools that have not had any graduates from the people in the classroom for a number of years? Have they looked at that to see if there is a problem in the way the curriculum is developed? What is the reason for not seeing any students graduating in those schools? Thank you.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Minister Ootes.

Committee Motion 7-14(3): Recommendation To Issue Timber Harvesting Permits Only With Consent Of Affected Parties (carried)
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 235

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I will ask Mr. Cleveland to answer this one. Thank you.