Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The focus on this has only been addressed in the last two years.

Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to wonder what former Ministers have been up to then over the past six to eight years. Some of these guys have really dropped the ball somewhere along the way.

-- Laughter

I will not continue to beat a dead dog, as my colleague Mr. Nitah would say, so I am going to move on.

I would like to discuss student support and pupil-teacher ratio. I think one of the biggest achievements we have seen in this Assembly is finding more money for the PTR and for special needs.

It surprised us a little bit to see in the department's business plans, very little focus on special needs and PTR this time around. They did focus a lot on it earlier in the spring and since Christmas. We felt that it was almost as if they had said, "There, we threw some money at that, we wash our hands of this problem. Let us move onto something else, we have taken care of that."

It is going to take us some time to move from the 18:1 pupil-teacher ratio to a 16:1 ratio. One of the real concerns our committee has is that the department is going to throw some money at this and hope the problem solves itself. I do not think we are convinced. I think we want to see the department work very closely with the boards of education to ensure this money is being spent on what we had hoped it would be spent on.

I think the intent of the money was to put more teachers on the frontline and reduce class size, and focus on special needs so that students receive a better quality of education. And so teachers are not overwhelmed and frustrated and just throwing their hands up in defeat with large class sizes.

We do not want to see layers of administration and more vice-principals. We want to see more teachers. I think we would like to see the department work closely with the boards to ensure this. Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This matter is a legislated matter. First of all, there will be a requirement to meet the targets that have been set, for changing the pupil-teacher ratio from 18:1 to 16:1. That is a requirement that we have to meet.

Additionally, the change in the funding availability has been increased from eight percent to 15 percent. We are working with the school program and resource committee. I had a meeting with the chairs of the district education councils and of the Yellowknife school boards, along with the directors, and this was a subject of some discussion.

I believe we are paying attention to this matter. There is a survey being completed of the student needs. That particular survey involved a number of people to do extensive work around the territory on a multi-level basis, and that will then form the documentation for the SPAR committee on what recommendations can come forward in regards to student needs.

I feel there is work being done. It is not the intent to add more administration to the school boards, to the school itself. It is directed at a change in the pupil-teacher ratio.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list I have Mr. Miltenberger, then Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first I would like to address the broader issue of accountability and the amount of work that was done with the department in the business plan, trying to come up with targets and agreed to strategies, and such. Given the fact the department is before us with a budget of $173 million, I would like the Minister to speak to the issue of accountability. On June 22nd, the Premier said there is no clear, measurable way by which to make this government's Ministers and deputy ministers accountable for not meeting targets.

I asked the same question to the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, and I would like the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment to speak to this issue, since we spent so much time getting ready for this budget. It is such a critical area of our program delivery. Thank you.

The Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The accountability issue certainly needs to be there and has to be there, in all areas of operation of this government. There is no doubt, though, that this department is working in that area.

There is a requirement under the Education Act for the DECs and the DEAs here in Yellowknife to produce financial plans and operation plans. That takes care of the school end, which is a large area. I know, for example, I only use this as an illustration, not to pinpoint one particular one, because they are all working particularly hard at it; but the Yellowknife School Board No. 1 has been dedicating themselves and their board members to producing their annual report and their particular plan. It is to inform the public about their issues, goals and successes, and that relates to the school board.

In terms of the department itself, it produced the document, Towards Excellence. It is an extensive document that produces data on various areas within the school system, graduation rates, enrollment, and so forth. The department is also currently installing an integrated information system which will help to address this issue of accountability. The Aurora College is in the process of reviewing and updating its corporate plan.

I understand what the Member is saying. We need to ensure that those are all in place, but I think to suggest that we do not have any plan is not correct. We have to address these issues and we need clear and accountable results, and clear and accountable goals and objectives. We are preparing an action plan for the Early Childhood Development Strategy, for example. Thank you.

Mr. Miltenberger.

I will have to ask longer questions and get shorter answers, because it is my ten minutes.

-- Laughter

I would like the Minister to very quickly confirm to me that he is then accountable for his business plan and his budget, and the contents of it, and the goals and the strategies they put out, which they are going to try and achieve. Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my responsibility, Mr. Miltenberger, just as you took that responsibility very seriously to ensure that direction is given to this department, to ensure that direction is carried out. There is importance being laid on the area of accountability, I believe, in ensuring we have a methodology by which we can measure results. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I will not be stringent in time. I will allow Members to ask as many questions as they like, and you can put your hand up again. I will recognize you. Do not worry. Your ten minutes can be 20, 30, 40 minutes. Just keep your hand up and I will recognize you. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make some brief general comments about education. Very clearly, on a comparative basis, when you look at other departments, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has been blessed in terms of resources.

Granted they have lots of social needs, and they had to endure cuts along with other departments, but in this instance, as they sit before us, they are the one department that has had money put back into it in a substantive way.

The goal now, the challenge of the task is to make sure that money is put to good use, and to meet the goals that have been identified in the legislation. The class size, and more importantly, the special needs issue.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to briefly but emphatically touch on the issue that I will be touching on with all the other social program departments as well. That is the very pressing need for demonstrable inter-departmental cooperation. It is still an unachieved goal. They may be making some efforts, but I would say they are quite cursory, and as we look at things like the Territorial Strategy for Children and Youth, or reviewing some of these shared initiatives such as Healthy Children, it cannot be done in isolation.

I would suggest that hopefully in the not-too-distant future there would even be, on these common areas, a joint business plan put forward that would clearly show the link and relationship and how the funding is pooled with the responsibilities that are identified.

As we focus on education, and as we look at special needs, we have to realize and continue to focus on the front end of working with families and children with the Department of Health and Social Services. This will ensure that children are born healthy and are brought up in good homes with parents with good parenting skills, so that the kids come to school ready to learn. Otherwise, we will never have enough money for special needs. It is going to be a losing battle.

The quality of education is something that we have to constantly focus on. There are concerns from small communities to large communities, from northern communities to communities in southern jurisdictions as to whether the quality is the same throughout, whether we can compete and meet standards. The concern that schools with grade extensions do not have the same choice and quality of education as students in larger communities, I think that it is an issue that has not been fully resolved as well.

Mr. Chairman, I have a couple other major issues that I would like to touch on. I will get back into more detail when we reach them in the budget. The issue of literacy is a broad one and we cannot just focus on adult basic education. But I think, like the language strategy the department is working on, we should also be looking at a literacy strategy, and a very comprehensive one.

That means not only English, but also literacy in the language of which you are born into and the languages you have been brought up with. It cuts across other departments, but clearly education has to be the main driver in any kind of literacy strategy. It affects health, affects employment, and affects any number of areas. It has impacts in justice. So when we come to that particular stage of the budget, I am going to be pressing, and hopefully all of my colleagues will as well, very hard on the Minister to commit to this endeavour, along with a language strategy. The two probably could be very clearly linked.

There is also a considerable number of SFA issues related to implementation. While the department is to be commended for bringing forward the long overdue changes and some new money, there are a considerable number of concerns brought to us as MLAs in regard to the regulations and how things have been implemented. For example, grandfather clauses, simple things like direct deposits and issues of that nature.

I will also be strongly encouraging the department to continue to work with the schools. Having them work with the college and the career centres and industry to make sure that we do have a continuum that is connected and that we do not have three separate components of Education, Culture, and Employment, but they are all part of the same long term process. They as well are working with the social program envelopes.

So those are my general comments at this point, Mr. Chairman. If the Minister wishes to respond, I would appreciate his comments. If he chooses to wait, I will revisit some of these issues. Some of them are very fundamental and more of process, such as interdepartmental co-operation, which is absolutely critical for the success of the department. Thank you.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to address, for the Member's sake, some of the areas. With regard to the inter-departmental co-operation, there is no doubt that it is an issue that has to continue to be focused on.

I believe it has not been ignored, by any means. The Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen and I, are working on an Early Childhood Development Action Plan, which is an important area for us to be concerned about. We were at a meeting in Toronto with the provincial Ministers in regard to the National Children's Agenda. This particular program is of importance to us. There is also ongoing work between the three departments on harmonization of income support with the Housing Corporation.

With regard to the literacy strategy, we are working on an adult basic education directive. It is our approach that after the directive is finalized, we want to develop a comprehensive literacy strategy for the Territories. This will also tie in together with the Aboriginal Language Strategy. Again, this is an area that we are working on with the aboriginal language communities.

The issues related to the student financial assistance, there were and are administrative areas that need to be addressed. I have met with the department on those areas, to ensure we continue to refine this particular program, like all programs, and to ensure that any of the identified areas are brought to our attention and are corrected.

There is a necessity to work very closely with the college campuses and with industry to be a part of our process in the development of our human resources here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Members of the social programs committee are pleased to see the Minister make the commitment today to put some money back into the Skills for Work program.

He does not provide a lot of detail in his comments today. I was wondering if he could advise us a bit about the program. Will that money be dedicated to non-government organizations and delivered at the community level? Or will part of it be dedicated to the college? How will that program be structured?

The Minister responsible for Education, Culture, and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I cannot remember the exact amount of the breakdown, but all of it will be for community delivery. Some of it will be done through the College and some will be done through the NGOs.

Mr. Dent.

Is there a commitment to make sure that the program is delivered in the smallest communities? For instance, we have 14 communities that have adult educators in them. Will there be some mechanism to make sure some of the funding is spent in communities where there are no adult educators right now?