Thank you Mr. Premier, Ms. Snider.

Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I would like to thank the deputy for that. I think it is critical that not only is this program and this pot of money administered from the Department of the Executive, but work is done at the line department level, because really when it comes down to it, that is where the bulk of the positions will be. If they feel it is too difficult to access the funding or there are too many conditions placed on the funding, they simply will not bother. The motivation has to be there at the departmental level or our public service will simply suffer.

She also mentioned hoping that the Government of the Northwest Territories would become an employer of choice, and I agree that is something that we need to strive for. I think one of the things I would like to reference is that we start our residents here and we invest a lot of money in them through the years, and presumably we send them away to university with adequate student financial assistance, and then we bring them back and we hope to find employment for them. Obviously, the main employer in the Northwest Territories is the government.

Students are finding it difficult to access summer employment in some areas, harder in some areas more so than in others. There are cases that students feel that they go away to school, get their education and come back here and there is no employment for them, or the government does not do enough to help them find employment. I do not think that anybody is looking for a handout here, or a guaranteed job or anything like that, but I think the people that we invest all this money and time in, and the people who grew up here, those are the people that we can count on staying here. I think it makes a lot more sense to devote attention and time to these kind of people than to worry about trying to recruit people and import the talent we need. So when we do have homegrown talent, I think it is important that we employ them. The Government of the Northwest Territories is a major employer.

I was encouraged to hear that there was a student working group set up on student and graduate employment underneath the umbrella of the corporate human resource services. I do not mean to be too detailed, here but I hope the Premier can give me some indication of why this working group was set up, how he sees it going forward, and if there have been any results to this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have set up a working group as the Member has noted, of students, northern students, students that we are employing at this time. And we have asked them to discuss how they may help look at the possible improvements to the way that we hire students and how we employ them, how we get to provide the opportunities to them, and the students have agreed. They are going to look at recommendations that they can make, currently looking at devising a process at which they can deliver something to us by the end of August. So the students themselves are being engaged to look at our employment practices with students and graduates. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I hope the Minister will keep the House apprised of developments in this area, because some indications coming to me have been that they have felt the summer student hiring process alone, not to mention trying to employ Northerners once they return from school, may not have been set up or given the most thought before it was set up.

Somebody mentioned to me they felt the department was simply a receptacle for resumes for summer hiring. The line departments were not involved until after the fact. When they had actually hired a student, they would report back to the main department. I think there are some problems here. I think it is something that needs to be streamlined, so I hope the Minister will keep us informed and let us know how the working group is going as there are developments.

The last thing I would like to touch on is the Intergovernmental Forum process. I have to say, Mr. Chairman I was thrilled to be invited to the first meeting in Hay River. I think it is a great process. I think it is something that we need to pay a lot of attention to, and I think it is critical for the development of the Northwest Territories.

However, I have to state, again, and we have all made comments to the Premier in this regard, that the one level of government that is sorely missing is municipal government.

I think there are key economic decisions and strategy and planning that will be coming out of this process, and while I do recognize that it is a very sensitive process and there are things that need to be worked out, I think that at some point, we have to look to involve municipal levels of government. I think we need buy-in right across the Northwest Territories with all of its citizens, not just some.

So I hope the Premier will keep in mind that municipalities have called and asked to be included in this process. I think they have a valid concern. I think they want to be involved. They do want to buy in to this, and I hope we will look at involving all levels of government in this process sometime, in the near future.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, and I would like to thank the Member for his positive remarks. The Association of Municipalities conveyed a very clear message to us, at their annual meeting, which was attended in Fort Simpson a month ago. I made a commitment at that time to meet with their executive as soon as possible. I think we have a tentative agreement to meet in August, but it is definitely before the middle of August. I intend to assure them that we will do what we can to make sure that they are engaged in whatever process is there to support them in fulfilling their roles and responsibilities that are set out for them.

Whether it is providing municipal services to constituents, to working as an association, to dealing with concerns and interests they may have in processes, like the Intergovernmental Forum. I am looking forward to that meeting, and it being finalized so we can have some discussion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to continue on with the issue of accountability for a few more minutes. Mr. Chairman, I have come to learn and accept that there is an inherent distrust of government and politicians by the people, so the issue of accountability is significant.

In my role as an MLA from my constituency, I have a clear role to play: to represent my constituents, to work in this House, through Caucus and through standing committees to lay out strategies, and then once those directions are set and Cabinet is doing the work of government, to question them, to work with them, to give praise where praise is due, but definitely, to ask hard questions when necessary.

My job is not, as the Premier indicated, in my opinion, to openly support Cabinet, even if we do not want to because that is what the public expects. I can tell you very clearly, Mr. Chairman, that my constituents expect a balance, yet we want a productive working relationship. We all have our roles to play.

So the Premier has made some statements on accountability. It is difficult to be accountable if you are not doing anything. It is probably the easiest way to be accountable, say nothing, do nothing, get re-elected, is a phrase I have heard used. I do not think that is the intent of this Assembly or the Premier.

So the issue of accountability is very important, and I will ask all the Ministers about accountability. I have a question for the Premier though, regarding a comprehensive human resource strategy. Could the Minister indicate what type of work he is going to instruct to be done prior to our meeting in September, so that when they come in Inuvik, we will have something to look at? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a new government and a new legislature and the things that we want to be accountable for are, first of all, trying to make sure all of us are going after the same things and finding, and agreeing, to a way on how we should try to achieve those and letting the public know.

That is exactly what it is we are trying to do and to make sure that, in four years, those of us that wish to do so, can go to the polls with absolute confidence that we have done a great job. That is the greatest accountability of all. I have been doing it for a number of years, and it feels great. There is no other way to be more accountable than that.

-- Laughter

Employees and senior managers of government are encouraged or blessed with that. We need to do some work to let the employees know that we are going to set out goals and objectives that are realistic and achievable. That we are supporting them, as good employees, and we are going to find some ways in which to work on making accountability mean something.

The Members have passed a motion in support of a Public Service Commission, with some Members saying the Public Service Commission could mean a whole number of different things. We note that previous Legislatures have looked at it and have decided, for various reasons, to not do that.

We have committed, as I have said, to have Cabinet prepare for consideration in Caucus in September, a full discussion on what the population breakdown is as best we can. The percentage of aboriginal people, age groups, how many people have more than a grade 9 or 10 education, and how many have management positions. I do not know that we could do it. However, we note that there are other large employers now, such as BHP Incorporated, and Diavik will soon be on stream. Oil and gas companies will start to hire some of our people as well.

We do not know how many of our aboriginal people are in the private sector, but we know that Members want this government to show some marked progress, improvements in the number of women and aboriginal people, covered by the Affirmative Action Policy, to show some better results.

I do not know that they are possible. We, first of all, have to know that they are out there. One of the questions will be, is the Public Service Commission, with the resources that it is going to require, willing to be able to give Members assurances that, with the Public Service Commission established, the percentage of aboriginal people in senior management positions in the government is going to climb and accelerate dramatically? Is it going to deliver on increasing the number of women hired and employed at the senior management level as well? Is it going to increase the improvements made in the regional centres and in our communities?

So that will be brought to the Members of the Legislature as well, an estimate on what a Public Service Commission would cost. I note that in the Yukon, it is roughly between $7 million and $8 million. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Yukon model, of course, is much broader than a Public Service Commission that I think this motion entertains, so it is very misleading when you say that it is $7 million to $8 million, because it has a host of other functions.

Every Member in this House, Mr. Chairman, is accountable to their constituents and is given a clear mandate thorough the election process. The accountability being discussed today is much broader than that. It is much more complex. We are Legislature. The Premier is in charge of running a government that spends almost a billion dollars a year and has a tremendous amount of programs and services delivered on behalf of all the citizens of the Northwest Territories.

So it is a little glib just to say every four years we are accountable to our constituents. We are here in a process of accountability to spend public money the tax payers have given us. So I have concerns with some of the general nature of these comments.

In the information that is going to be prepared for Inuvik, will there also be information prepared on the affirmative action program? There was considerable work done, and I reviewed the committee report that was prepared in the 13th Assembly, as well as the government response, which was basically put on the shelf. It is tied into the human resource issue, and it is something that has to be addressed. It was brought up, as I indicated, in 1989 and I hope that the government's information on a Public Service Commission is not going to come in, so clearly biased against, that it will be set up so that there is no chance that it will be accepted because the picture painted will not be objective and unbiased. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Public Service Commission in the Yukon is the closest one that is in existence, and so I recall the motion that was moved by Members asked for a Public Service Commission.

While the name means many things, the motion does not define what it is. So, in the absence of it, we just looked at the budget of the Public Service Commission, which is what it is called in the Yukon. If I recall, the operating budget of it is between $7 million and $8 million a year.

It may do many great things, and it may be doing many great things in the Yukon. We have asked to have the Yukon Government share that with us, and we will bring that to the Members in Inuvik. There will be research done to look at the many forums that a Public Service Commission takes, because it may very well be that a Public Service Commission will do all those things that we will want to have done.

So the decision will be made after some good discussion by Members in Inuvik. There is work to be done, and I think the Member points out that he has learned, personally that people out there have an inherent distrust of government and politicians. I have never shared that view at all, and I have been through many more years in public service than the Member has.

The people that I served and the public that I have engaged in have had disappointing periods in our history of our government, but I can never say that there has been and that there is an inherent distrust of politicians and government in our public. I do not think I am so naive and oblivious to it that I have missed that.

I think it may very well be that as we sit in office, the public may grow weary of us. They may feel that we are not delivering on the things that we said we were going to, but that is not distrust. That is disappointment. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have heard much of accountability in this Legislative Assembly, and it started right from day one, as 14th Assembly Members came together and spoke of what their goals were and aspirations. I guess with some concern, I raise this and I hear the Premier when he spoke and answered in some response about trying to be more positive and work together. I agree we cannot always be negative and looking for the bad things. However, a couple of the responses I have heard today are concerning me.

One, the Premier just stated accountability, and this is the way I look at it. Accountability comes once every four years. And he enjoys that, he said. It seems that is the way things are being pushed to go to the Caucus route, where there are in-camera meetings where no one can be held accountable for what is being said or what is being planned. Public accountability for each Member does come once every four years, Mr. Chairman, but public accountability also comes through this forum, this Legislative Assembly.

Through questions and answers, through motions put through the House to try and achieve something. Yes, we need to talk in Caucus to suggest some ideas and so on, but I think unless we are going to open that forum up to the public, then we need to focus on what work is being done through this forum.

Mr. Chairman, the Premier made much about being principled and I pulled this out from his speech to Members when he was running for the position of Premier:

"These are the kinds of people I want to see on cabinet. Strong people, people that do not owe anybody anything out there. People that are not going to be patronizing friends. People who are going to work for the interest of everyone, who will be committed to being accountable and being strong Members of a team."

As well, Mr. Chairman, the closing speech says:

"I want to work so that we have a good future. We do that through making sure this government is a good government. We make sure this government is accountable."

Mr. Chairman, that raises concern. Because there are a number of things that happened, and I have tried to take a balanced approach of not being overly negative, but at the same time, as the Premier had asked, sometimes we need to pat Cabinet on the back. I said I would gladly do that when we have something to go with. I think Members have pointed out some of the good work that has been done to date. One of the principles of a democracy is the fact that we have a forum to discuss things, put things to those who put their names forward to the high office of Cabinet. However, what I hear here today is concerning the Premier of the Northwest Territories suggesting that accountability comes once every four years. He talked about being principled and about patronizing.

I was going to save this question until later, but I feel now is the time to address it, since we are talking about these issues. The Premier previously had an executive assistant. Now that person has moved up to the chief of staff. If that does not go in the area of patronizing, I do not know what is.

I want to work for the benefit of the people of the Northwest Territories. I believe that is what the Premier wants to do as well. I believe that is what all Members want to do. It is time to put it clearly, this is the only forum that I am aware of, besides committee systems, which from time to time are bringing in the public for public review of what is being put forward in bills and legislation, not to go behind closed doors and discuss the issues of the Northwest Territories and the large issues that are before us like self-government.

The area of a Public Service Commission, affirmative action, those are working documents that we need to give to the staff to give them direction. So, Mr. Chairman, for the record, I would like the Premier to state what his definition of accountability is. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Roland. Before we go to the Minister, I would like to recognize on behalf of Mr. Miltenberger, a couple of Fort Smith residents in the audience, Ethel Chalifoux and Tracey Bird. Welcome to the Assembly.

-- Applause

Mr. Premier.

Thank you. I am going to ask for a dictionary so I could give them something that is universally accepted as a definition of accountability. I think some Members are taking great fun in quoting me. That is accountability. The more I say, the more I am accountable for, which is right.

The Financial Administration Act and some of the policies and guidelines of government require us to be accountable, to sit here in standing committees and the committee of the whole to account for the money we have asked to get approved, so we could spend it.

Cabinet Ministers are accountable to Members of the Legislature and the public for how we spend the money. There is an element of time. We say we are going to do things in a certain timeframe. We are accountable for whether we meet that or not. Why are there construction delays and carry-overs from year to year? Because the system in place right now, for accountability. There is also accountability if you have ten things to do and you have only spent enough time to do one thing. You should be called to task for it. That is accountability as well. There is a limit to the amount of money you have and the time and so you need to measure how effective you really are.

You know, if the Legislature wants us to do 30 things and there is only enough time and money and resources to do ten things well, then we are accountable. Is doing ten of those things, the ten most important things and doing them well okay? Or are we to be turfed out because we did not do the other 20? I would say that is a question that would probably be decided later.

We know that, and I think the Member is inherently inclined towards being positive all the time, though he is critical. I would say it is difficult for him to be negative. Because I think part of being a leader and a representative of people is people have to expect you to feel positive. If it is raining, then you have to tell people you absolutely believe the sun is going to come out. They are not going to follow you, and they are not going to want to support you if you just keep saying everything is doom and gloom. If you have nothing positive to say, then people shun you. That is accountability.

You need to be accountable for the attitude that you carry and you project. Not only in this Legislature, but in the public, and in the way you conduct yourself. Being a team player, making sure that the interests of the Legislature are respected, as well playing your part. You know there is accountability in that.

The fact that Cabinet is expected to work as a team. I am sure everybody in the Legislature is expected to do the same. So being effective is difficult to measure. There is accountability for that as well. The ways in which we can be accountable, as asked for by the committee, will be worked on by this government. We will bring your suggestions forward to the discussion in Inuvik in September on accountability. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the area of human resources, government has announced the Staff Retention Policy that they put in place. I stated that I have some concerns with how this policy will overlap with an existing policy, which is the Affirmative Action Policy, which has been in place for some time.

What my concern is, because of the different criteria for the Staff Retention Policy, which does not really open up doors for people under affirmative action, it sort of shuts it. Because of the differences between the two policies, where you are protecting people within but not allowing people from outside to get jobs within the government, especially using the Affirmative Action Policy, which was a tool to allow the public service to be reflective of the political makeup of the Northwest Territories.

So I would like to ask, has the department looked at how this new Staff Retention Policy is going to work in-line with the affirmative action, or is there going to be a joint policy so we meet the criteria of both policies? Now we have two policies, before we had the affirmative action, now we have added another policy. So can the Minister state what are they doing to ensure that the Affirmative Action Policy is still going to be adhered to and not overlooked by this new policy?