This is page numbers 337 - 371 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was conflict.

Topics

Part VWhether There Are Any Circumstances Which Would Explain The Apparent Error In Judgment Associated With The Minister's Tape Recording Of The March 26, 2001, Telephone Conversation Between John Bayly, Principal Secretary, And The Conflict Of Interest Commissioner.
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

October 22nd, 2001

Page 359

Bayly

Oh well, it sounds like a restaurant to me. So maybe it is at your end somehow.

Ms. Roberts: Could be.

Mr. Bayly: I'm just on the speakerphone here so that I can take notes if I need to. (Emphasis added).

  1. 15 This exchange occurred after the point that Mr. Bayly acknowledged that he was aware that the telephone call was being tape-recorded. In his evidence before the committee, Mr. Bayly acknowledged that this statement to Ms. Roberts was a partial truth. He had elected to make the call on the speakerphone and not advise her of the presence of others.
  2. 16 When he realized that the call was being taped, he took no action to terminate the call. The statement to the effect that he was using the speakerphone so that he could take notes deliberately misinformed the Conflict of Interest Commissioner of the actual circumstances of the call.
  3. 17 There is also a conflict in the evidence as to whether Ms. Sorensen was present more or less throughout the telephone call. Given the consistency of the evidence of the other witnesses, this committee prefers their evidence to that provided by Ms. Sorensen.
  4. 18 The committee also finds it at best puzzling or unusual that Ms. Sorensen would, as she indicated in her evidence, accept a formal letter of reprimand for her involvement in this matter when, according to her evidence, she had no knowledge that the call was being tape recorded and had no knowledge that those present in the room had not been introduced to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner as being present.
  5. 19 In fact her evidence is that the contrary occurred and that she assumed that Ms. Roberts was in fact aware of others being present in the room. It challenges common sense to some degree that she would accept a reprimand for her conduct when, according to her, she was an entirely innocent bystander.
  6. 20 The committee was also persuaded by the evidence of Ms. Taylor, which was given in an extremely frank and forthright manner. The committee further appreciates the exceedingly difficult position that she would have been in during the course of this telephone call. It could not have been easy for her to provide evidence to the committee given the nature of the evidence in issue.
  7. 21 During the course of the evidence at the hearings, the committee learned the following additional facts, which it believes are very important to the comments that follow in this report, Mr. Speaker:
  • • Minister Groenewegen had previously surreptitiously tape-recorded an earlier telephone conversation with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, which had occurred on or about January 7, 2001. The conversation was on the same tape used to tape the March 26, 2001, conversation;
  • • Minister Groenewegen felt entirely justified in taping this January conversation and felt that, as she only intended it for her own use, there was no harm associated with this action;
  • • That all present during the March 26, 2001, telephone conversation between Mr. Bayly and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner were aware that it had been tape recorded (with the possible exception of Ms. Sorensen whose evidence on this point, as previously indicated, is difficult to reconcile with that of other witnesses);
  • • That John Bayly and Lynda Sorensen became aware on or about July 6, 2001, that the fact of this secretly taped conversation would become known to the public at large as the Minister intended to refer to these circumstances in written submissions to be made to the special committee;
  • • John Bayly and Lynda Sorensen advised the Premier on July 6, 2001, of the secret taping of this conversation and the fact that it would soon become public;
  • • The Premier upon learning of this wanted, as apparently a first priority, to receive advice as to whether this was an illegal act;
  • • The Minister advised the Premier in passing on July 19, 2001, that she was turning over the tape as required to the law clerk and that there was another conversation on the tape. She did not clearly indicate to the Premier at this time that the other conversation was also a secretly taped conversation;
  • • That between March 26, 2001 and July 6, 2001, no mention was made nor action initiated by John Bayly, Lynda Sorensen (if indeed she knew of this having occurred) or Minister Groenewegen concerning the secret taping;
  • • Between July 6, 2001 and July 22, 2001 (the day before session was to open to deal with the report of the Special Committee on Conflict Process), no steps were taken by the Premier regarding the actions of secretly taping a telephone conversation with a statutory officer of the Legislative Assembly;

On Sunday, July 22, 2001, a number of events hastily occurred:

  • • A policy letter was circulated to Cabinet Members stating that taping telephone conversations without the knowledge of all parties to the call was not acceptable conduct by members of the government;
  • • A letter of reprimand was jointly addressed to John Bayly and Lynda Sorensen to be placed on their respective files. It should be noted, Mr. Speaker, that when these witnesses were requested to produce to the committee a copy of the letter of reprimand they declined to do so, claiming privacy rights with respect to this document.
  • • The Premier had a discussion with the Deputy Premier at the home of the Premier, at which time it was agreed that she would, the following day, provide him with her written resignation as Deputy Premier;
  • • Given the absence of any action concerning the secret taping prior to this time, the multiple steps on this single day are indeed remarkable;
  • • It appears that the Premier may not have learned until July 25, 2001, that there was in fact a further secretly taped telephone conversation between the Minister and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. However, Ms. Sorensen in her evidence before the committee stated that she had reminded the Premier in Hay River on July 19, 2001, that the Minister had informed him of the second taping... [Hansard September 20, 2001, page 154.];
  • • She further stated, when asked by Mr. Arvay, counsel for the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, when she became aware of the second taping, that it was on the 19th of July in Hay River [Hansard September 20, 2001, page 159]. It therefore appears that Ms. Sorensen knew of this fact on that date (namely July 19, 2001);
  • • On July 23, 2001, the Premier made a statement in the House advising that the Minister had tendered her resignation as Deputy Premier. He stated that in her letter of resignation Ms. Groenewegen indicated that she exercised poor judgment by recording a telephone conversation on March 26, 2001, between the Principal Secretary and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, Carol Roberts. [Hansard July 23, 2001, page 287.]; (emphasis added)
  • • Ms. Sorensen in her evidence indicated that she would have reviewed the draft letter of resignation of the Deputy Premier prior to the Premier seeing the letter;
  • • In addressing the debate in committee of the whole on July 23, 2001, the Premier spoke against continuation of the Special Committee on Conflict Process and its request for a continued and expanded mandate, which of necessity would include an examination of the actions of senior staff and the Minister respecting the secret taping of a telephone conversation with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner;
  • • The Premier was aware at this point of time, of information that was not in the possession of any other Member of the House, with the exception of Minister Groenewegen: that the chief of staff and the principal secretary had been significantly involved in the events of March 26, 2001. This was not a fact known even to special committee members at the time of this debate;
  • • In August Mr. Bayly offered his resignation to the Premier, and during the course of that conversation the Premier declined to accept the offer of resignation.
  1. 22 This series of events significantly and adversely reflects on the individuals directly involved in the taping of telephone conversations with statutory officers of the House and the broadcast of conversations to undisclosed listeners.
  2. 23 Mr. Speaker, the matter goes much beyond that. The absence of any action by the Premier on learning of these events early in July and the highly coincidental flurry of activity that can only be described as damage control the day before the session was scheduled to open, reveals that there appears to be no independent yardstick or compass of ethical conduct.
  3. 24 The primary concern of the most senior levels of this government in the Premier's office appears to have been to doctor the political spin.
  4. 25 There was no independent or early action to deal with improper conduct. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, the concern appeared to be with respect to the legality of the conduct and not the morality of it.
  5. 26 No letters of reprimand were issued at the earliest opportunity, no general policy letter about taping telephone conversations occurred immediately after the July 6, 2001 disclosure, no action of any kind was taken or wrongdoing acknowledged by senior staff during the months that preceded this disclosure.
  6. 27 Had the Minister not elected to make the taping of this conversation known in her written submissions to this committee, it is likely that no steps of any kind would have been taken.
  7. 28 It is, in the view of the committee, a poor measure of the moral standards of this government, and it reflects on all those who are associated with it, be they as elected Members or staff.
  8. 29 Mr. Speaker, the measure of moral conduct is not that which occurs when the world at large may be watching. The measure of moral conduct involves taking the right actions even when only those directly involved are privy to the circumstances.
  9. 30 Ethical behaviour is not behaviour that is undertaken for demonstration purposes. It is undertaken because it is right.
  10. 31 In the view of this committee, no acceptable circumstances were revealed which justify in any respect the actions of Minister Groenewegen in secretly taping not one but two telephone conversations with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner.
  11. 32 In the view of this committee, no acceptable circumstances were revealed which justify the involvement of senior Cabinet staff in this matter at all, let alone in the manner in which they were actually involved.
  12. 33 Finally, in the view of this committee, no acceptable circumstances were revealed which explain the absence of immediate and determinative action to deal with these events on the part of the Premier once they became known.

Part ViOther Issues Of Integrity And Conduct
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 359

Bayly

6.1 Mr. Speaker, in the view of the committee, it must report its comments concerning other circumstances which became apparent only during the course of hearings in this matter.

(a) The Conduct of Mr. Selleck and the CBC

6.2 It is clear, from the evidence heard by this committee, that Mr. Selleck was seeking a story regarding the potential infraction by Minister Groenewegen of conflict of interest obligations. In seeking an interview with the Minister, Mr. Selleck refused to disclose the nature of the issues and preferred instead to embark on a mission of surprise. The committee notes that the Journalistic Standards and Practice of the CBC states:

The information reports or reflects equitably the relevant facts and significant points of view, it deals fairly and ethically with persons, institutions, issues and events. (Emphasis added).

  1. 3 Mr. Selleck, in the manner in which he undertook this assignment, has trod perilously close to breach of these standards. At the very least, in the view of the committee, he has damaged his own credibility and that of the organization by whom he is employed.
  2. 4 As previously indicated, the information which Mr. Selleck could have provided to this committee was both important and instrumental respecting a number of critical factual issues. Mr. Selleck, both himself and through the representations of his legal counsel, refused to acknowledge the compelling nature of the invitation and summons served on him respecting these proceedings. He refused, through his counsel, to even provide the courtesy to the committee of advising whether or not he would attend or take issue with the request that he provide evidence. He saw fit to only articulate this position at the outset of the formal hearings, Mr. Speaker.
  3. 5 When afforded the opportunity to specify the framework of his claim to journalistic privilege by answering questions which would tend to establish, or not, the legitimacy of such a claim, he chose not to do so. Mr. Selleck went so far as to refuse to even be sworn in before the committee.
  4. 6 Mr. Selleck and his counsel appeared not to appreciate that the claim of privilege is not one which applies, automatically or otherwise, to proceedings before a parliamentary committee. They unfortunately did not take the time or make the effort to apprise themselves of the nature and authority of such proceedings. Had they done so, they would have learned that not only is journalistic privilege not applicable in these proceedings, such well-protected privileges as solicitor-client privilege do not stand in this arena.
  5. 7 The refusal of a witness to answer questions before a duly constituted parliamentary committee is a serious affront to the dignity of the parliamentary process. The authorities on this matter, Mr. Speaker, are abundant and clear, and I am quoting from Erskine May, Parliamentary Practice, 22nd Edition, page 109 through 110:

Witnesses who have refused to be sworn or take upon themselves some corresponding obligation to tell the truth, who have refused to answer questions, who refused to produce or destroyed documents in their possession, who have prevaricated, given false evidence, wilfully suppressed the truth, or persistently misled a committee have been considered guilty of contempt.

Also, Mr. Speaker, from Maginot, Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, 2nd Edition, page 193:

The penal jurisdiction of the House is not confined to its own Members. Nor is it confined to offences committed in the immediate presence of the House by its Members; it is extended to all contempts of the House, whether committed by a Member or by persons who are not Members and whether or not the offence constituting the contempt was committed within the House or beyond its walls.

Additionally, Mr. Speaker, from Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th Edition:

862 Witnesses must answer all questions directed to them even over their objection that an answer would incriminate them.

863 A witness is, however, bound to answer all questions which the committee sees fit to put, and cannot be excused, for example, on the ground that there could be a risk of a civil action, or because an oath has been taken not to disclose the matter under consideration, or because the matter was a privileged communication such as that between a solicitor and a client, or on the grounds of advice from counsel that the question cannot be answered without risking self-incrimination or a civil suit, or that it would prejudice a defence in pending litigation, some of which would be sufficient grounds of excuse in a court of law. Nor can a witness refuse to produce documents on the grounds of an instruction from a client that they not be disclosed without the consent of the client.

  1. 8 Mr. Speaker, as a result of these apparently ill-informed actions, Mr. Selleck is at risk of sanction by the House.
  2. 9 The committee has the power to recommend sanctions to the House and these sanctions are very broad. Mr. Selleck categorically refused to testify and to submit to the taking of an oath. This action is contemptuous of the committee and of the House itself which duly constituted the committee. The committee could make this matter the subject of a separate report to the House and recommend appropriate sanctions. The committee has chosen however to deal with the more significant issues and not waste the valuable time and resources of the House on a contemptuous act that is based more in ignorance than malice. It is however indicative of a reporter and media corporation that simply lack both in professionalism and a fundamental understanding of civics and the democratic values that underpin our system of governance.
  3. 10 It further considers that the damage caused by Mr. Selleck to his own credibility and that of his employer, the CBC, is sufficient sanction and one of which he and they are the sole architects.
  4. (b) Conduct of Minister Groenewegen

  5. 11 It goes without saying that the public at large is entitled to expect a higher level of ethical conduct than what has been demonstrated by the Minister throughout this matter. Her secretive taping of telephone conversations is, in the view of the committee, inexcusable. As well, her single-minded pursuit of her issues with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner do not speak to a professional and mature approach to serious government responsibilities. Her actions have assisted this government in being side tracked and diverted by concerns that are essentially those of the Minister and not those of the government as a whole. She can fairly share in the responsibility for significant costs, time and energy being devoted to this matter.
  6. 12 Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, the Minister can take responsibility for a serious absence of duly informing the Premier on July 19, 2001, of the full contents of the tape recording which would thereafter form part of the record of the proceedings of this committee. She neglected to advise him in any appropriate detail of the contents of the tape. As a result, the Premier did not have in hand a complete picture of these circumstances when he addressed the House on July 23, 2001.
  7. 13 Minister Groenewegen is therefore directly responsible for full information not being provided to the House at a time when these events were fully known to her. She chose instead, for reasons that are best known to her, to ignore the fact that secret tapings of telephone conversations had occurred on more than one occasion.
  8. 14 She was content with the House being advised of part, but not all, significant information concerning such matters. Despite her being of the view that the taping of the January telephone conversation was justified and irrelevant does not detract from the fact that such conduct is completely inappropriate for government Ministers or Members of this Assembly.
  9. (c) Conduct of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner

  10. 15 This committee was both distressed and discouraged by the evidence outlining various aspects of conduct of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, and indeed with the manner in which she provided evidence to this committee. There appeared to be a pattern of passivity and a reluctance on the part of the Commissioner to be actively and energetically engaged in the issues affecting Members of this Assembly. She has failed to systematically meet with Members since her appointment to review and advise on their affairs. Mr. Speaker, she has left it entirely to Members, in particular Ms. Groenewegen, to seek out expert advice and she saw no role for herself in facilitating this in any fashion.
  11. 16 She minimized her responsibilities in dealing with Members and maximized to an inappropriate degree their individual responsibilities without clear or articulated advice on her part. She apparently kept no notes of important meetings with Members or other circumstances. She exercised poor judgment in agreeing to deal with the media when there was a clear and public controversy developing concerning Minister Groenewegen.
  12. 17 She failed to give notice of potential sections of the act that may have been breached by the Minister in both the Miltenberger and Rowe investigations.
  13. 18 She appears to have misconceived the ability of the House to impose sanctions upon her dismissal of the Miltenberger complaint. Her decision in the Rowe investigation appears to impose a result not contemplated in any respect by the governing legislation.
  14. 19 With respect to these proceedings, she approved written submissions placed before this committee which used strident and aggressive language. She did so having previously complained that the proceedings of this committee were unduly adversarial in nature. It appeared at times that her availability to attend before the committee was to be a negotiated item rather than one of duty or responsibility as a statutory officer of the House. She refused to attend a scheduled hearing of this committee July 12, 2001, on the basis of her view that her then legal counsel were being ill treated in their contract negotiations for payment. 6.20 Mr. Speaker, her evidence before the committee was often inconsistent and lacked the clarity and articulation one would normally expect from a person occupying this position with the education and work experience attributable to this Commissioner.
  15. 21 While her legal counsel has been careful to point out that this process was not about a review of the competency of the Conflict Commissioner nor a performance appraisal of her to this point, the committee cannot ignore these facts and cannot fail to report to the House its significant concerns respecting same. To do so would ignore a large part of the serious facts placed before the committee in its hearing, and would ignore the conduct of the Commissioner during the course of these proceedings.
  16. 22 The committee is of the view that it would be remiss in its obligations to Members generally, and to the House, should it fail to report these serious concerns which were unanimously voiced by committee members.
  17. (d) The Conduct of Senior Cabinet Staff

6.23 Quite apart from the question of individuals' involvement in clandestine taping of telephone conversations, a number of actions were revealed before this committee which it feels are worthy of comment. These include, Mr. Speaker:

  • • The fact that Mr. Bayly and Ms. Sorensen saw fit to refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the invitation and summons served on them to attend before the committee and give evidence;
  • • Each Mr. Bayly and Ms. Sorensen disclosed documents relevant to matters being considered by the committee only during the course of their testimony. Interestingly enough, for individuals in the habit of keeping careful and copious notes, no notes were apparently taken or kept regarding the events of March 26, 2001. Each witness was obliged by the terms of the invitation to attend and summons to review and produce all relevant documents that they might have in their possession touching on matters to be considered by the committee. The committee is uncertain as to whether both individuals either failed to take such obligations seriously or failed to meet the standards expected of witnesses attending before a legislative committee.
  • • Each Mr. Bayly and Ms. Sorensen, either through themselves or through counsel, refused in the face of specific requests by the committee to produce copies of the letter of reprimand apparently delivered to them on the part of the Premier. This leaves lingering doubts, where there should be none, as to the existence of or content of their letter of reprimand and whether it truly addressed the issues of the conduct in question;
  • • Ms. Taylor was advised by government legal counsel to provide no information that may tend to reveal Cabinet confidences. Similarly such claims of Crown privilege do not necessarily apply when relevant information is sought which might otherwise be the subject of Crown privilege.
  1. 24 Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for this committee to report that senior officials have adopted an approach of cooperation, transparency and open government in the face of these facts. Rather, the overwhelming impression left was that of reluctant involvement based on political self interest, the selective production of documents and the, at times, opportune absence of memory or clear recollection.
  2. 25 This committee is of the view that the requested jointly addressed letter of reprimand is not protected by privacy interests as alleged on behalf of Ms. Sorensen and Mr. Bayly. This refusal is considered to be a very serious issue by the committee and a complete disregard by these public servants of the privileges, power and authority of this committee. Mr. Speaker.
  3. 26 In addition, Ms. Sorensen appears to have been aware of the fact that there was a second tape recorded telephone conversation between the Minister and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Knowing this, she did not take steps to advise the Premier of this situation or correct his statement to the House on July 23, 2001, which referred to only one taped conversation.
  4. 27 The Premier has a right to rely and depend on full and accurate information being provided to him. Similarly, he must ensure that staff who are directly answerable to him are aware of and abide by such standards.
  5. 28 The committee questions as well the level of involvement of staff in the Premier's office respecting a conflict of interest matter affecting a particular Member, whether or not they are a member of Cabinet. While the situation is no doubt a difficult one for staff in dealing with, in this case the Deputy Premier, one has to expect that senior level staff are capable of making appropriate decisions as to those issues which they should or should not be involved in.
  6. 29 The responsibility for not only the actions of senior officials, but their response to this committee, lies squarely with the Premier. They occupy the most senior civil servant levels in this government. It is only the Premier who can be answerable and accountable for this conduct. It is similarly only the Premier who, in the face of the facts now widely known, who can attempt to restore public confidence in the integrity and standards of this government. In the view of this committee, to leave such conduct without any further redress is, in fact, to condone it.

(e) Conduct of the Premier

6.30 Although the Premier appeared to view his position in this matter as detached and peripheral, in the view of the committee there are significant concerns arising out of the facts ascertained at the hearing in this matter:

  • • The initial and primary concern of the Premier when learning of these events appeared not to be the unethical and unacceptable nature of the conduct, but rather whether these individuals could be accused of illegal activity;
  • • The Premier was aware on July 6, 2001, when he was advised by both Mr. Bayly and Ms. Sorensen that the secret taping of a telephone conversation with a statutory officer of the House had occurred. Despite this knowledge and the public statements considerably after the fact that such conduct is not acceptable and reflects poorly on this government, no action was taken at the time to address the matter.
  • • If such action was indeed so unacceptable in the opinion of the Premier, the committee must seriously question why immediate steps were not undertaken. In the view of the committee, the flurry of activity which occurred July 22, 2001, is more than coincidental.
  • • On July 23, 2001, in the House the Premier spoke strongly against this committee continuing its work when he was in possession of knowledge available to no other Member other than Minister Groenewegen. Only Stephen Kakfwi and Jane Groenewegen knew of the involvement of the chief of staff in the March 26, 2001, secret taping. The implication of his chief of staff in these events should have required at least disclosure of that fact during the course of debate. Instead, in the view of the Premier, and I am quoting:

There are things that were uncovered in the course of the work. I do not know what they are. The public does not know what they are. There are some innuendoes and suggestions made, [but] they do not appear to be substantial. If there are issues considering conduct, that is for the Board of Management or perhaps myself as Premier, to deal with. [Hansard, July 23, 2001, page 299].

6.31 At the very least, the Premier did in fact know that the chief of staff was involved in a secretive taping of a telephone conversation. He knew or ought to have known that this was substantial and serious. When the Premier suggested that instead the Board of Management should deal with matters, he must be taken to have known that this entity could not hear witnesses or examine evidence. In fact the board's ability to deal with senior Cabinet staff is virtually non-existent. The Premier's lack of action and unwillingness to disclose his staff's involvement with such activity is at direct odds with open and transparent government.

Part VII

Conclusions

  1. 1 Mr. Speaker, as the various events and facts of this matter are complex, and the time at which certain events occurred is important, a time line showing significant occurrences with the bias allegations and telephone taping are attached to this report.
  2. 2 The public's confidence in its elected representatives places a high demand on not only the Members and our Ministers, but also in senior officials of our government. Conflict of interest legislation does not necessarily have as its primary purpose the improvement of the ethical standards of legislators. Most commentators would agree that the majority of public office holders are decent, hard working men and women who do their best to serve the public interest, as they understand it.
  3. 3 Conflict of interest legislation is largely intended to assist elected representatives by providing an objective standard against which they may gauge their actions, and satisfy themselves and the public that they are acting appropriately. This rational was aptly described by the Ontario Ethics Commissioner in 1996, and I quote:

The primary purpose of integrity legislation is not to promote high ethical standards among members, all of whom, we expect, having chosen to aspire to public office, possess the necessary moral qualities that entitle them to be referred to as honourable members in the Legislature or Parliament. Rather it is a standard against which the ever increasingly cynical and suspicious press and public may measure their behaviour in office. It may not appease the more rabid critics, but it will serve as a source of satisfaction to the member whose conduct is under attack to know that it meets the standard by which his peers are also judged.

  1. 4 Mr. Speaker, the committee wrestled with the challenge of weighing up the evidence from the five days of public hearings, the volumes of submissions and replies submitted by the Minister and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner to reach conclusions to recommend to the Legislative Assembly.
  2. 5 The challenge of this one special committee to provide to the Legislature and the public recommendations that would assist with restoring the confidence in and integrity of government and statutory officers proved to be one that was truly necessary to undertake.
  3. 6 Members of the committee viewed their obligation to assess the apprehension of bias issue extremely seriously. The office of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner is one which occupies both a sensitive and responsible position, one which must both work with and be detached from Members. However, the committee was obliged to resolutely review all facts and allegations.
  4. 7 The committee was drawn to the Members' Conduct Guidelines, which are etched in glass outside this Chamber. These guidelines were provided to every one of us when we were first elected to the 14th Legislative Assembly, and these guidelines should be held higher than they have been in recent times. We are of the view that the following portions of the guidelines are appropriate and bear repeating, Mr. Speaker:

As a legislator, I will do my best to fulfill my duties to the Legislature, the public and my constituents and my colleagues with integrity and honour;

To my constituents, I owe my best efforts at effective representation, as well as accountability, honesty, fairness and courtesy;

To the Legislature, I owe respect, as well as dedication to my role in ensuring integrity of our government and in earning, through my actions, the confidence of people;

To the public, I owe a responsibility to work for the well-being of all residents of the Northwest Territories;

To my colleagues, I owe fairness and respect for our differences, and the duty to work together with goodwill for the common good.

  1. 8 Mr. Speaker, integrity, honesty, accountability and moral conduct are indeed lofty principles and ones that we know that voters would like to see in the individuals that are fortunate to be elected to the Legislative Assembly. One assumes that once elected that we do not lose these qualities. Furthermore, some of us are singled out by our colleagues to take on responsibility as Premier and Ministers of the government. This places these individuals on a higher plane where the standard of integrity and conduct are even more important and their actions must demonstrate those principles.
  2. 9 Mr. Speaker, democracy is founded on the principles of equality and respect for all individuals, which can be referred to as mutual respect. Mutual respect means that we owe the same consideration to others when making decisions that affect them as we feel we are owed when others make decisions that affect us. Some have indicated that there are five principles of democracy that follow from mutual respect: social equality, deference to the majority, minority rights, freedom, and integrity, Mr. Speaker. A familiarity with these principles provides a foundation for judging ethical behaviour in the public sphere and for resolving ethical dilemmas in a democratic context.
  3. 10 These five key principles of democracy imply certain ethical duties on the part of public officials and in this case the Premier, Minister, Conflict of Interest Commissioner, principal secretary and chief of staff. First, they have a responsibility to act as impartially as possible when carrying out their duties, especially those established by law. Second, they are acting as trustees for the entire citizenry, and therefore they have a fiduciary responsibility not to abuse that trust. Third, they have a duty to account for their activities and decisions.
  4. 11 As indicated, the committee undertook an impartial process where all parties to the issues had an opportunity to present their perspectives fully. The Assembly can be assured that the committee considered the issues in a fashion that was free from bias.
  5. 12 While the committee attempted to narrowly articulate its mandate for the purposes of the hearing to be conducted, it is apparent that as result of the hearing, important facts and circumstances were revealed. Therefore, in the view of the committee, in order to responsibly complete its tasks, it must report on all such matters that it considers significant and to make recommendations that it feels must be made arising from these matters.
  6. 13 Both elected Members and members of the public have had occasion to question the expenditure of time and money in this matter. However, when a question of apprehension of bias is raised regarding a statutory officer of this Legislature, and one who is charged with the responsibility of both advising Members on conflict matters and investigating conflict complaints, it is a matter of significant public interest that those concerns be resolved. The public must have confidence in the fulfillment of these very important obligations as they represent a cornerstone in the foundation of integrity of elected officials.
  7. 14 Mr. Speaker, the obligation of this committee to continue its work became even more pressing when the early facts regarding the March 26, 2001, tape recorded conversation became known. This was not an issue that could be ignored as it reflected so directly on the standards of this government.

Part ViiiRecommendations
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 359

Bayly

CBC and Lee Selleck

  1. 1 When a committee of this Legislature is mandated to undertake certain tasks, it has a broad ambit of authority to do so. This authority rests in age old principles of parliamentary privilege. Those principles exist and historically have been used to ensure that the government of the nation can properly undertake its responsibilities to its citizenry.
  2. 2 When a witness or person requested to attend before a committee duly constituted chooses to ignore both the authority of that process and the reasons for it, it is a matter of utmost seriousness.
  3. 3 The actions of Mr. Selleck are a breach of the well-established constitutional privileges of the Assembly and amount to a clear and deliberate contempt of its authority and proceedings.
  4. 4 However, after careful reflection, this committee has chosen not to request the House to embark in a sideline dispute with either Mr. Selleck or the CBC.
  5. 5 The relationship between elected Members and those of the media ought to be characterized by mutual respect and propriety. In the view of this committee, the actions of Mr. Selleck reflected neither of those qualities. Mr. Selleck's credibility and that of the CBC has been seriously damaged in the process, Mr. Speaker.
  6. 6 This situation may have been different had either Mr. Selleck or his legal counsel taken time to apprise themselves of the most fundamental aspects of parliamentary privilege and journalistic conventions.
  7. 7 The consequences of their own actions on their reputations may well be much more far reaching than any specific sanctions by this House.
  8. 8 Any relationship between media and politicians to some degree rests on both good will and respect for the institutions they represent. When either of those aspects is absent, the relationship will necessarily suffer and one or the other of the institutions is diminished, Mr. Speaker. Unfortunately in this case, the committee is of the view that the CBC is unnecessarily diminished.

Recommendation 1

This committee therefore recommends that no further formal action be taken with respect to Mr. Selleck and the CBC.

Minister Jane Groenewegen

  1. 9 The committee does not propose to reiterate its findings earlier in this report concerning the actions of Minister Groenewegen. It has reported that in the view of the committee, her actions have fallen far short of those standards expected of members of Cabinet.
  2. 10 The public cannot maintain confidence in this government when the standards which were adopted by the Minister remain without censure and resolution. The resignation of Ms. Groenewegen as Deputy Premier, in the view of the committee, does not adequately address the gravity of her actions.
  3. 11 The committee was further struck during the evidence of Ms. Groenewegen in the hearings in that it demonstrated a remarkable scarcity of remorse or critical self-reflection.
  4. 12 For these reasons, the committee is of the view that the confidence of the House can no longer be reposed in this individual as a member of Cabinet.

Recommendation 2

This committee recommends that the adoption of this report be deemed to be a resolution of the House of censure and want of confidence in the Minister and that she submit her resignation forthwith.

Conflict of Interest Commissioner, Carol Roberts

  1. 13 This committee has reported above its serious concerns respecting the actions and inaction of this Conflict of Interest Commissioner. This office requires an extremely high standard of judgment and engagement with Members. The function of the office contributes to both elected Members and the public at large having an appropriate working knowledge of the standards expected, Mr. Speaker.
  2. 14 The relationship between Members and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner correspondingly requires a high degree of confidence in her experience, approach, judgment, availability and perspective.
  3. 15 The concerns related above in this report reveal an absence of some of those essential qualities to a degree which erodes beyond acceptable limits the confidence of Members in her continued role as Conflict of Interest Commissioner.

The act states that:

s. 91(3) Subject to section 92, the Conflict of Interest Commissioner holds office during good behaviour for a term of four years.

s .92(1) The Conflict of Interest Commissioner may resign at any time by notifying the Speaker in writing or, if the Speaker is absent or unable to act or the office of the Speaker is vacant, by so notifying the Clerk.

s. 92(2) The Commissioner, on the recommendation of the Legislative Assembly, may, for cause or incapacity, suspend or remove from office the Conflict of Interest Commissioner.

8.16 Mr. Speaker, in the view of this committee, the actions of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner in this matter and generally detailed in this report constitute cause and reflect the unacceptable erosion of confidence in her management of these difficult and important responsibilities. The relationship between Members and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner has, in our view, broken down to a degree that it cannot reasonably be rehabilitated. In the absence of such a relationship, the capacity of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner to carry out the responsibilities of office is wanting. For these reasons:

Recommendation 3

This committee recommends that the adoption of this report be deemed to be a resolution of the House authorizing and confirming the following:

  1. a) That the Legislative Assembly has lost confidence in Carol Roberts as Conflict of Interest Commissioner;
  2. b) That the Legislative Assembly requests Ms. Roberts to submit her resignation to the Speaker on or before October 27, 2001; and

c) Failing provision of the resignation as requested, the Legislative Assembly recommends to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories that Ms. Roberts be removed from the office of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner pursuant to section 92(2) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act.

Restoring Integrity to the Office of the Premier

8.17 In our unique system of government in the Northwest Territories, Members work on a basis of consensus and partnership. In such a system by convention, the Legislative Assembly elects the Premier. In doing so, Members of the Assembly repose their trust, a trust which has been placed in them by the electorate, in the Government Leader.

  1. 18 This trust has, as its foundation, the confidence that the leader of our government will undertake his or her responsibilities with dignity and integrity. The Premier is therefore charged not only with maintaining and safeguarding the trust of elected Members, but more importantly, Mr. Speaker, that of the citizens of the Northwest Territories.
  2. 19 The Premier must engage the assistance of others to contribute to the many responsibilities of that office, while never forgetting that it is he who is accountable to the public and he who must bear ultimate responsibility for their conduct. He has the authority and the discretion to engage persons who are best suited to these important tasks. In doing so, the standards, practices and conduct of persons occupying the positions of principal secretary and chief of staff must reflect those of the government and those which the Members, officers of the House and the electorate fairly expect and require.
  3. 20 It is the firm expectation of this committee that the Premier has no option but to take immediate steps that will demonstrate the commitment of this government to high standards of practice and conduct, standards which the electorate has every right to expect and indeed assume.
  4. 21 The provision of a jointly addressed letter of reprimand to Mr. Bayly and Ms. Sorensen, a document which both individuals refused to produce to the committee, falls far short of the required action. This refusal is capable of a finding of contempt by the House should this committee have so requested that action.
  5. 22 This committee is of the view that the Premier should require the resignations of John Bayly, principal secretary, and Lynda Sorensen, chief of staff. In the view of the committee, the gravity of the actions of these individuals requires a comparable response by the Premier which reflects the seriousness of these issues.

Recommendation 4

The committee recommends that the Premier take immediate action to regain the confidence of the public and all Members in the integrity of government and the standards of all persons within government as this action is essential in order that the Premier retain the confidence of the House.

Part IxFinal Comment
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 359

Bayly

  1. 1 Mr. Speaker, while this committee's mandate is concluded with the presentation of this report, the work of government must continue.
  2. 2 Measures must be taken so that the confidence in the integrity and standard of government by the public can again be well placed in those who undertake their work for the benefit of the people of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Special Committee on Conflict Process. Therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland, that the report of the Special Committee on Conflict Process, entitled Confidence in the Integrity and Standard of Government, be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

Part IxFinal Comment
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 368

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell. We have a motion. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. The report will be moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Education ActBill 7: Powers Of Attorney Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report that the Standing Committee on Social Programs has reviewed Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Education Act and Bill 7, Powers of Attorney Act and wishes to report that Bills 5 and 7 are ready for consideration in committee of the whole. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bills 5 and 7 ordered into committee of the whole for today.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Education ActBill 7: Powers Of Attorney Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bills 5 and 7 ordered into committee of the whole for today. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Bill 6: National Aboriginal Day Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Legislative Assembly that the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight has reviewed Bill 6, National Aboriginal Day Act and wishes to report that Bill 6 is ready for consideration in committee of the whole.

Bill 6: National Aboriginal Day Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicle Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On June 14, 2001 Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicle Act, received second reading and was referred to the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(1) respecting the 120-day review period to allow the committee to conclude its review and report back to the House no later than November 2, 2001. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicle Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(1) respecting the 120-day review period to allow the committee to conclude its review. Are there any nays? There are no nays. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Bill 9: Commercial Vehicle Trip Permit ActBill 10: Public Highway Improvement Fund Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Legislative Assembly that the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development has reviewed Bill 9, Commercial Vehicle Trip Permit Act and Bill 10, Public Highway Improvement Fund Act and wishes to report Bills 9 and 10 to the Legislative Assembly with the recommendation that the Legislative Assembly not proceed further with these bills. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 9: Commercial Vehicle Trip Permit ActBill 10: Public Highway Improvement Fund Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Bill 13: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report that the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight has reviewed Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2 and wishes to report that Bill 13 is ready for consideration in committee of the whole as amended and reprinted. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bill 13 ordered into committee of the whole for today.

Bill 13: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to waive Rule 70(5) and have Bill 13 ordered into committee of the whole for today. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The House will take a break. We shall rise and report back at the call of the Chair.

-- Break

Bill 13: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The House will now come back to order. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Tabled Document 38-14(4): Government Of The Northwest Territories Interim Financial Report For The Year Ended March 31, 2001
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two documents for tabling today. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Government of the Northwest Territories Interim Financial Report for the Year Ended March 31, 2001.

Tabled Document 39-14(4): Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 1-14(4): Report On The Review Of The Auditor General's 1999-2000 Annual Report
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I also wish to table the following document entitled Government of the Northwest Territories Comprehensive Response to the Report on the Review of the Auditor General to the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly for the Year 1999. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 39-14(4): Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 1-14(4): Report On The Review Of The Auditor General's 1999-2000 Annual Report
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Tabled Document 40-14(4): Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 2-14(4): Report On The Review Of The Atipp Commissioner's Annual Report 1999-2000
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Response to the AOC Report on the Review of the Access and Privacy Commissioner's Report, 1999-2000. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tabled Document 40-14(4): Comprehensive Response To Committee Report 2-14(4): Report On The Review Of The Atipp Commissioner's Annual Report 1999-2000
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Antoine. Item 13, tabling of documents.

Tabled Document 41-14(4): Commissioner's Declaration On Assenting To Bill 2: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Members of the House, I wish to table the Commissioner's Declaration of Assent to Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, dated September 25, 2001.

Tabled Document 42-14(4): Report Of The Independent Commission On MLA Compensation
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

I have the honour of tabling the Report of the Independent Commission on Members' Compensation, dated October 1, 2001.

Tabled Document 43-14(4): Conflict Commissioner's Report, Re Allegations Against The Member For Tu Nedhe
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

In accordance with section 102(2) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I wish to table the report of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner in the matter of allegations against the Member for Tu Nedhe.

Tabled Document 44-14(4): Annual Report Of The Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Commissioner For The Year 2000-2001
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 369

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

In accordance with section 68 of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, I wish to table the Annual Report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner for the Year 2000-2001.