This is page numbers 449 - 475 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen, Honourable Jim Antoine, Mr. Bell, Mr. Braden, Mr. Delorey, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Honourable Joe Handley, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Lee, Mr. McLeod, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Nitah, Honourable Jake Ootes, Mr. Roland, Honourable Vince Steen, Honourable Tony Whitford.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Please be seated. Good afternoon, Members.

Speaker's Ruling

At this time, I would like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised by the Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell. The point of order appears on page 1052 of unedited Hansard. The Member's point of order as stated by Mr. Bell: "I believe the Member has imputed motives toward myself and the committee with her suggestions that one of the recommendations had ulterior motives." Mr. Bell's point of order arose as a result of comments being made by the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee, while she was replying to the Commissioner's opening address under item 9 on the orders of the day.

I permitted debate on the point of order and heard from the Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent. There being no other Members who wished to speak on the point of order, I reserved my decision to permit me to review the unedited Hansard. In reviewing the Hansard I made note of, and I am sure Members will recall, that there was one other point of order and a point of privilege raised during the reply being made by the Member for Range Lake. To the point of order that I reserved on, and in reviewing the unedited Hansard, there are two quotes that are, in my view, the basis of the point of order.

The first is on pages 1048 and 1049 of the unedited Hansard and I quote Ms. Lee:

Mr. Speaker, the instrument of this palace coup is the committee report filed on Tuesday and the committee report that was discussed yesterday. I think the people who need to answer to these actions are the authors of this report. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is very clear who has written the report and the interest of the public, the Members of the committee...Then the Member for Range Lake proceeded to name all the Members of the Special Committee on Conflict Process.

The second quote is contained on page 1051 of the unedited Hansard and I again quote Ms. Lee: "However, it seems like there was an ulterior motive to that motion and that is that a suggestion made for a certain action has to be taken by the Premier."

There are a number of rules that I reviewed in considering my ruling. First, Rule 41(1), which states:

41(1) Every Member may make one reply to the opening address given under rule 33 and may speak on any matter.Secondly, Rule 23, which states:

In debate a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member:

(c) Persists in needless repetition or raises matters which have been decided during the current session:

(f) Reflects upon any previous vote of the Assembly except for the purpose of moving that it be rescinded;

(h) Makes an allegation against another Member, a house officer or a witness: and

(i) Imputes false or hidden motives to another Member.

Mr. Bell's point of order falls under Rule 23(h) and 23(i). However, as I pointed out during the debate yesterday, Ms. Lee came very close to breaching a number of other rules on a number of occasions. I rule that Mr. Bell does have a point of order based on the comments made by the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

The Chair's normal course in dealing with this matter would be to ask the Member, Ms. Lee, to retract the offending comments. However, I do note that again on page 1052, and I quote from the comments of the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee: "Mr. Speaker, my apologies. It was not appropriate for me to use the words ulterior motive so I will retract that and refrain from saying it again."

Therefore the Chair will accept the stated apology of the Member for Range Lake, which I trust is acceptable to the Member for Yellowknife South and the House. Thank you.

The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order I would like to raise.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The honourable Member has a point of order. Mr. Handley, what is your point of order?

Point of Order

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is under section 25 of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly. This is the first opportunity I have had to raise this. I wanted to look at the transcript. On page 1048 and continuing on 1049, Ms. Lee makes reference to a palace coup. She refers, "I use the word palace coup." Then she talks about the instrument of this palace coup is the committee report. Then she goes on to name the members of the committee, including myself.

The implication and the innuendo to this thing is that somehow I am involved, along with other members of the committee, in some palace coup. I find that offensive. I find that absolutely false and unfounded and I ask that the Member apologize and retract that statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. A point of order has been raised. Are there any comments by the Members on this point of order? The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what I heard the Member say is that he is raising a point of privilege, not a point of order. Is it a point of order? May I have the permission to make a statement on this point of order?

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Ms. Lee, any Member may, in debate, speak on the point of order but I am not going to permit a dialogue back and forth here. If you have something to say on that point, then state it. Other Members will have an opportunity as well to speak on Mr. Handley's point of order. Ms. Lee.

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to state for the House that I do apologize if any of the Members here feel that they are offended by the words used. I believe that the words that we are not supposed to use here are very clearly set out in the rulebook. One of them is to have language that is unparliamentary. I think there is a question as to whether or not the words palace coup are unparliamentary.

I meant what I said when I said in my opinion. This is my opinion and I have a parliamentary privilege to have freedom of expression and freedom of opinion. In my opinion, and what I have heard and seen with my eyes, I cannot think of any other words to describe it in a way that is as apt and appropriate.

I have discussed this with my constituents and the words actually came from my constituents. I just thought that those were good words. I do apologize if this is offensive but, Mr. Speaker, I was speaking on what transpired in this House from the recommendations and debates that came out of the special committee report. I do feel that I have to stand here and be judged by what I say and I am totally prepared to be judged on what I do and what I say in my capacity as the Member for Range Lake.

If anyone would take the time to read the special committee report, there are many allegations and comments made that are totally unparliamentary. I was only responding to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Ms. Lee, I believe you have gone a bit beyond the point of order here. I guess now you have stopped. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on the point of order? The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would just like to speak in support of the concerns and chagrin and anger expressed by my colleague, Mr. Handley. I as well was on that committee and one of the authors of that report and I stand by it. I stand by every word in that report. There is evidence. There is documentation. Unfortunately, the inflammatory language -- the unnecessary inflammatory language -- in a time that calls for tact, diplomacy, statesmanship and measured comments has done nothing to add to the resolution of the outstanding issues before this House. I think it is truly unfortunate.

I as well did not appreciate all the comments and implications that I am some sort of terrorist engaged in a sort of violent overthrow of a legitimately elected government of which I am a Member, of which I was duly appointed to the committee. We have made great efforts to follow every rule, every requirement to be measured, fair and objective.

Unfortunately, I think Ms. Lee has gone far beyond the bounds of what is civil and in good order for good government. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too rise in support of the point of order. Being a member of this committee, I as well found it offensive to be put in such context that deserved none.

The report was dealt with by this House. All Members had opportunity at that time to deal with that issue. Ms. Lee, in her comments in speaking to the reply to the opening address, continued to retry the information and the report that was done and dealt with by this House. Even as far as this morning, stating again and trying to put the information out there.

I believe every Member has opportunity to deal with their constituents and how they feel about it. However, to paint such a picture of all Members of this House, especially the members of that committee that was appointed by this House, because she does not like the report, I cannot help it if she cannot disengage herself from relationships she has outside of this arena. If she continues to do so, I am very concerned that it would impede on my ability to represent my constituents in matters that are of importance, of good government and accountability and transparency.

I think this is a very serious issue that needs to be clarified so that we can go beyond this issue and get on with good government. Thank you.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I will just remind Members that when you are speaking to the point of order, stick to the facts, only the facts and do not go beyond that. To the point of order. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand to support the point of order. I think the Member here went beyond what the rest of the Members think as the integrity of the House. I think she has made accusations that were not true. I will have a statement on this. I just want to stand up and say that I am in support of this.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, in reply or defence of her comments, Ms. Lee questioned whether or not palace coup is an offensive word. I will tell you, in the context of which she used it, I find it terribly offensive. She also said she will apologize if it is offensive. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is very, very offensive in the context that it is used. Not only am I asking her for an unqualified apology to this, I am asking that these words be taken out, removed from here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. Are there any more Members to speak on this point of order? The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ms. Lee, in responding to the question of whether or not this is a point of order, has said that palace coup is not unparliamentary language. That may be true, but what does palace coup mean? It means an overthrow of a legitimate government by force or the seizing of power by terrorism.

By using those words, she has in fact imputed motive to the five authors of that report, indicating that they are trying to seize force or seize power in this House. I think that alone should make the case for your ruling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the point of order. Are there any other comments on the point of order? Thank you.

Speaker's Ruling

Members of this Assembly, I think it is incumbent on all of us here to observe certain protocols and to treat all Members with due respect when we are making statements. I have read carefully the unedited Hansard, the particular paragraphs that were raised by the honourable Member for Weledeh and other Members of this House. The words that were used by the honourable Member for Range Lake are indeed suggestive of something quite strong, quite violent that the Chair fails to see relevant to the operations of good government in this House. Therefore, from the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Weledeh, the Chair would find that there is a point of order.

As far as what to do with this matter, I think if we deal with it now would be the best time. The Chair has limited options in this matter. The most obvious option is to ask the Member for Range Lake to apologize for the words used and to withdraw those words that were used in her statement yesterday found in the unedited Hansard on pages 1048 and 1049. The honourable Member for Range Lake, are you prepared to apologize to the House and to withdraw those comments?

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not mean to in any way challenge the Chair, but may I be advised...

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Ms. Lee, the question...

-- Interjection

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The question was very specific. There is no room for debate. Will the honourable Member apologize to the House and withdraw those remarks?

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the interest of protecting my right to speak here, I will not apologize or retract those words. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.