This is page numbers 191 - 228 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was project.

Topics

Tabled Document 17-14(4): Strategic Plan For The Settlement Of Enterprise
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 212

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for the Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Tabled Document 18-14(4): Letter From The Chief Of The Aklavik Indian Band Regarding A New Health Centre
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 212

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table two documents: a letter from the Chief of Aklavik to the Premier in regard to the new health centre, and the effects in regard to the Gwich'in Agreement and how the government is not living up to it.

Tabled Document 19-14(4): Letter From The Minister Of Transportation Regarding Deferred Capital Projects
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 212

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Also, a letter I received from the Minister of Transportation, dated May 28, 2001, in regard to the deferral of projects in my riding.

Tabled Document 19-14(4): Letter From The Minister Of Transportation Regarding Deferred Capital Projects
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 212

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Motion 5-14(4): Extended Adjournment Of The House To July 23, 2001
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 212

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 15th, 2001, I will move the following motion:

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that not withstanding Rule 4, that when this House adjourns on Friday, June 15th, 2001, it shall be adjourned until Monday, July 23rd, 2001;

And further, Mr. Speaker, that at any time prior to July 23rd, 2001, if the Speaker is satisfied after consultation with the Executive Council, the Members of the Legislative Assembly, with the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment.

Mr. Speaker, we give notice and thereupon, the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 5-14(4): Extended Adjournment Of The House To July 23, 2001
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 212

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Motion 6-14(4): Appointments To The Board Of Management
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

June 12th, 2001

Page 212

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 15th, 2001, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that the Legislative Assembly thereby appoints as follows:

  • • The Honourable Joseph L. Handley, Member for Weledeh, as a member of the Board of Management; and
  • • The Honourable Jim Antoine, Member for Nahendeh; Mr. Leon Lafferty, Member for North Slave; Mr. McLeod, Member for Deh Cho, as alternate members of the Board of Management.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 6-14(4): Appointments To The Board Of Management
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Friday, June 15th, 2001, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for North Slave, that the Executive Council is censured in the manner in which it made minor changes to the 2001-2002 capital investment expenditure budget, as agreed by the Assembly without the prior notification, involvement and support of the affected Member or the standing committee.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Motion 8-14(4): Establishment Of Independent Commission On Members' Compensation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Friday, June 15th, 2001, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that the Legislative Assembly hereby appoints Mr. Fred Carmichael and Mr. Robert Clark as the Commission on Members' Compensation;

And further that the commission shall:

  1. assess and review the indemnities, additional indemnities, allowances, expenses and benefits provided to Members to determine the appropriateness of the amounts provided;
  2. assess and review the reporting requirements and procedures for Members expenditures to determine the level of accountability acceptable to the public;
  3. review any other matter that the commission considers relevant respecting the compensation scheme provided to Members.

And furthermore, that the commission shall report with its observations and recommendations to the Speaker by October 1, 2001, and the Speaker shall cause the report to be tabled in the Legislative Assembly without delay if the Assembly is in session, and if the Assembly is not in session, as soon as reasonably practicable.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion 8-14(4): Establishment Of Independent Commission On Members' Compensation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Motion 8-14(4): Establishment Of Independent Commission On Members' Compensation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to deal with my motion of which I gave notice earlier today.

Motion 8-14(4): Establishment Of Independent Commission On Members' Compensation
Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 213

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to deal with his motion, Motion 7 that was given today. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 213

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Department of Transportation has confirmed that improvements to the Dempster Highway in the Fort McPherson area have been postponed and that funding moved to address the Campbell River bridge reconstruction project near Inuvik;

AND WHEREAS two projects previously approved by this Legislative Assembly have now been deferred indefinitely to ensure significant funds are available for the completion of the Campbell River bridge reconstruction project;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Transportation has indicated that the two deferred projects will not be proceeding until the next fiscal year;

AND WHEREAS directive 302 of the Financial Administration Manual requires the Minister responsible to advise the appropriate MLA and standing committee when a department makes any adjustment to a capital project that significantly affects the scope or timing of the project;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Transportation did not provide the notification required in the Financial Administration Manual, either to the affected Member of the Legislative Assembly or standing committee;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for North Slave, that the Executive Council is censured for the manner in which it made minor changes to the 2001-2002 capital investment expenditure budget as agreed to by the Assembly without the prior notification, involvement and support of the affected Members and standing committee.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 213

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 213

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, having gone through a similar process with regard to this in the 13th Assembly, where a project was moved from the previous Speaker of the Legislative Assembly's riding to a Minister's riding at the time, this issue was debated fully in the 13th Assembly because of this type of ability for the department to move a project from any Member's riding to another riding without notification. Because of that, there was an adjustment made to the Financial Administration Act to ensure that no projects over a specific amount were going to be moved without notification.

In this case, there is a real fundamental principle that we all abide by in this House, and it is to be informed on what goes on, on a day-to-day matter that affects ourselves as Members and affects our constituency, when capital projects are being taken out of our riding.

I think it has to be fundamental. The basic principle of a government of our consensus style of government is openness. To allow all Members on this side of the House and the Cabinet Ministers on that side to work together cooperatively so we know what is going to happen, so we are not caught by surprise, where we find out, after the fact, that two projects have been cancelled in your riding.

I think that it is imperative that as a government, we ensure that openness continues.

The whole reason to have a directive such as 302 is to ensure that there are rules laid out so everybody plays by the rules. You cannot have a rule one day and then decide the next day to chuck it out because it is going to take too much time to consult and bring it back to a standing committee for them to really realize what the implication of that change is.

I think that it is important that we do follow the rules that we set and that we ensure that we have a fair and open process.

I believe that this motion is in line, in regard to ensuring that that process is there and that we do have an open, accountable and a consensus style of government that really means what it means -- consensus, open government.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask Members, my colleagues, to support this motion, because if it can happen to me, it can happen to any one of you.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to speak to the motion. Although there are two interpretations of projects, the money amount is the big-ticket item.

When money is moved from one riding to another riding, the Ministers of departments involved should make the Member aware of what is happening. The project in question, the dates, say it was March 28th that the project was moved, and the responsibility of the department is that they have to declare, by the end of the fiscal year, March 31st, a few days later, to make everybody aware that there is going to be a substantial amount of money changed.

Although the budget considers it one project, I am sure there are a lot of project managers in different areas. It has to be regarded as a number of projects, not only one. To that, I support the motion and, as most Members know my concerns of all the activities out there, I am very suspicious of everything that is happening now. I just want to say that I support the motion fully.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Lafferty has pointed out, there are different definitions here of what a project is. Clearly I believe that a project is different from what is outlined in here.

However, Mr. Speaker, this motion was just given to us a few minutes ago. I would like to ask if we can take a break to allow us to take a little time to consider this matter before we go any further. Thank you.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Handley. We are speaking to the motion and your request is not quite in order. Mr. Handley.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to proceed to speak to the motion. Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things in here. I think one of the "Whereas", that says "Whereas directive 302 of the Financial Administration Manual requires the Minister responsible to advise MLAs" and so on.

That is correct with regard to a project. A project, though, is as they are laid out in the capital plan. We cannot mix a project and a contract up. There is nothing that refers to a contract.

What Mr. Krutko and Mr. Lafferty are referring to, is really a contract within a project. The project is still the same size. It is still the same scope. It is still the same timing. The only thing that has moved around is the contract. There is nothing in the Financial Administration Act or the Financial Administration Manual that refers to moving contracts around.

This is more than a technicality, Mr. Speaker. This is important because it is the way we build our main estimates and the way we describe our projects. It has to be standardized because we cannot begin to use interpretations that Members may choose to put on it. We have to use what is conventionally described as a project.

I am of the view, after reviewing this matter, that the Minister responsible for Transportation has not violated the Financial Administration Act or the Financial Administration Manual. There is no evidence at all of that. As far as I can tell, the project is still the same size. What he has done is move money from one contract to another contract, but all within the same project.

Mr. Speaker, all I can say to the Members is that this is serious. This is not something we should treat lightly. In this case, there has been no violation of the Financial Administration Act. We have to use the standard definition of a project. This motion is serious in censuring the actions of the Executive Council, but there has been no violation.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Members to look very carefully at this and consider the definitions that we have to work by. We have to have rules that are standard and that we can all agree to. They cannot simply be based on a Member's interpretation of what a contract is and what a project is. It is a standard definition.

Mr. Speaker, as I say, this is a serious matter and I ask the Members to treat it seriously. Has a project been changed? The answer is no. Has there been violation of the FAA or the FAM? The answer is no. Therefore, this motion of censure is invalid. Thank you.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 214

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Handley. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Motion 7-14(4): Censuring The Actions Of The Executive Council (carried)
Item 16: Motions

Page 215

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to this motion and hopefully clear up some confusion that centres around this particular issue. Mr. Speaker, it was never the intent of the department to cause this much of an issue by deferring these two particular contracts that we had for the first part of the Dempster Highway. The department did divert money from those two projects towards the bridge project, the Campbell Creek bridge.

In the past, the department has been following a process whereby we inform MLAs as a matter of courtesy when we move money from one section of a riding to another riding, although it is within the same project. We have done this. We have also informed Members when we move money from one project to another project. We have done that in the past. We are well aware of what is required.

When we interpret the specific reference under the Financial Administration Act, this particular clause, we interpret it to mean a budgeted project. The budgeted project is $5 million of the whole Dempster Highway. We know that we have within there some projects, or whatever you want to call them, contracts, but they are not the specific project that is referred to in the Financial Administration Act. That is how we have been operating.

I was hoping that through further discussion, possibly under the supplementary appropriations, we could have assured the Member that not all the $950,000 went to the bridge. In fact, $550,000 of this money, some of it went back into his riding through other contracts and other projects, if that is what he wants to call them.

Now, if I want to be more specific, I would show that the Campbell Creek bridge required another $425,000 to meet the tender. We needed $425,000 to keep that project on speed because it had a high priority. We have done that. That left $550,000 out of the $950,000 of the projects.

Those $550,000 now add up to this. We had a public tender contract and it was awarded to Geometry Aquatic Study Arctic Red, for $92,100. Gwich'in Development Corporation geotech investigation of kilometre 143, $30,000; that was awarded and it was a public tender.

Then, yet to be tendered, we have culvert replacement, kilometre 0 to 20, which was one of the original projects, we have allotted $200,000 to that. That is out to public tender right now.

We kept $202,000 out of this money for miscellaneous surveying and administration. The total comes to $950,000. We did not spend the total $950,000 in the Inuvik riding.

What our letter indicated to the Member was, should there be money able to go back into that project, we will put the money back. That is exactly what we are trying to do by retendering the public tender for kilometre 20 culvert replacement. We put it back for tender. However, we do not have the same amount of money to do the job.

However, we did indicate in the letter to the Member that we would do this, this year, if possible. If not, the project then is referred to next year, but regardless of how you look at this, there were no infractions, as far as I am concerned, to the Financial Administration Act. I do not believe I should be censured or anyone else on this would be censured. I definitely will not support the motion and I request Members to seriously consider what is being said here. Thank you.