Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not really qualified to answer that. My own laymen sense is that it would have a lot to do with diet. It would be one of the causes. I could be wrong on that, but that is my own response that I would make to you as a layman. The other questions that you asked, the technical ones, we would have to provide that information to you. I do not have that level of detail in terms of cancer rates, but the department can definitely pull together a comprehensive list of information for the Members here in terms of cancer issues that you referred to. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe there is some tracking by geographical area. The issue of bed days and such I cannot really speak to. I will just commit once again to the department pulling together a comprehensive package on the tracking of statistics related to illness and death and by gender, by what we have by geographical location and if we can attribute a cause. In some cases, as the Member indicated, some of it is somewhat self-evident with, for example, lung cancer and cigarette smoking, but we will get that information. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Miltenberger.

Mr. Chairman, we are trying to bring to bear the best testing and diagnostic tools we have for things like breast cancer. We have learned through hard experience that how we detect tuberculosis has to be improved. We are doing work on that. We are spending money on trying to convince people not to smoke, pregnant mothers not to drink, those types of things. We are spending a considerable amount of money on diabetes information, to make people aware of the significant impact that diet has on that particular illness. So we are trying to do a whole host of things to address the issues that my colleague has mentioned. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Before I go to Mr. Dent, I will just pass on an update that I received from upstairs that the hockey game between Canada and the United States, Canada is leading one-nothing. Mr. Dent.

That is good news, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I would like to start first talking about sustainability. I appreciate the Minister's comments earlier about the need to embark on a dialogue on sustainability, because it is probably the first time I have heard a Minister admit that is what we need to do. I am pleased that there is a recognition that we need to get some discussion happening. However, I did not hear the Minister say how we were going to get it started or when. He said we needed to embark on it and that Members of this Assembly needed to be involved in all of the stakeholders in the system, but when are we actually going to get into that?

The action plan itself does not really address the biggest issues of sustainability. While I think that on a percentage basis, we are spending far less on health care in the Northwest Territories than what we should be when you compare us to other jurisdictions, eventually we are going to get to the position that other jurisdictions have gotten to where it has become a significant problem. So, when is this dialogue going to get started? When are we actually going to sit down and start talking about some of these difficult choices that we may have to make?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that we have already started that dialogue. That I, for example, have come into this position, having spent the last two years with Mr. Dent on the Social Programs Committee and having discussed this issue a number of times and having heard his comments, and I as well have made my own assessments.

As he has indicated in his recollection, this has never been publicly stated before as an issue and a process that has to be engaged in. I believe the action plan does set the stage, not only to try to do things, but also to set the stage for the discussion as we look at what kind of service delivery model is most appropriate.

What are the core services that we require as a territory to maintain the critical services to the people that we serve? Do I have a full-blown process or consultation plan to do that? No, I do not and I would very much seek the advice and the direction of the committee as we try to move forward in this because I know that Mr. Dent has been saying for some time we have to start this process and we have to engage in this debate.

So the political signal is that I agree and we have some pieces there that will allow us to do that, but obviously we are going to have to do more if we want to have it focused enough to come to some sort of conclusion at the end of this process, and that is where I will need advice and direction from Mr. Dent and the authorities and the professional associations because it is...we cannot wait any longer, I do not believe. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister's action plan talks about a document that sets out core services and he just mentioned that document, but the timetable that I see for the preparation and final distribution of that document does not leave a lot of time for the sort of dialogue that I think needs to take place. So what we are going to be talking about in that, I assume, is a listing or snapshot of what we can offer today and where we are today. I suspect though that the kind of discussion we are going to need to have before too long is going to take some time and there is going to have to be a real plan to involve the public and get them talking about it. I am hoping that the Minister will take a look at that and be prepared to take the lead to start the public dialogue.

This is going to take a significant amount of time, I believe. In fact, I think it will take longer than what we have left in our mandate, but if we get the process started, maybe there is a chance of getting it wrapped up in three or four years, within the time we have before the situation becomes critical. I think we owe it to the citizens of the North to make sure that we do not let the system get to the critical state. We have a responsibility to start moving this dialogue along.

I am hoping that he will recognize that it is going to take more than what he has in his action plan. It is going to take a concerted process that he is going to have to take the lead in developing, and I welcome his offer to work with the standing committee to shape that process, but I think we need to get started on that. It has to be almost separate from what we are doing right now because this is much more immediate.

I think one of the things that I have not seen yet, that I am hoping that we will see, is some way to start talking about the resources that we need to put into health budget that we need to bring it up to the level that it should be at. The Minister has mentioned that we need to start looking more at health promotion and population health, and I think that is good. I think we have to start putting dollars there. We are not going to see those long-term savings unless we put significant dollars in. This is really a tough one for government because you need a significant investment, but we are not going to see the payback probably while we are still in office. That has always been a problem, to make this switch. We are talking about a payback that is probably more than five years away, maybe as much as 30 years away.

However, if we do not start putting money into population health and if we do not start putting our money into an emphasis on prevention instead of treatment, we are never going to get there. Unfortunately, when I look at this budget, I do not see any switch from the treatment side to dealing with improved spending in population health or prevention areas.

That dialogue needs to start very soon and I hope the Minister will recognize that it is not the same as the dialogue that he has with his action plan, which is dealing with much more immediate governance and sustainability problems. We have to start talking about significant new investments in health and where they should be in order to make sure that we can maintain the system 30 years from now.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Member raises some good points. If we see ourselves as stewards of the system, then very clearly we have to think in more than four year increments. We have to think in the long term, especially something as critical as health and social services. As politicians, we come and go. This is a transient occupation, but the health requirements and system have to be there and in operation regardless of who is here. It has to be well set up.

I agree that what Mr. Dent is referring to is probably a companion process, but I would like to say again that I think we are raising the profile on this particular issue and the need to start that particular conversation. I have been raising it since November 1st when I got here at every opportunity.

The action plan itself, as Mr. Dent indicates, deals with the immediate, but a lot of the immediate will flow into the longer term as we look at service models and, of course, service documents. It is also not an event. It is going to be a process that the action plan is going to evolve. I would also like to suggest that possibly the committee would consider at some point when we next meet with, for example, the JLC at a formal physical sit-down together possibly coming. We could have a discussion on the issue of sustainability and how best to address this issue so that it gets the full range of public involvement, and we do it in a way that has a beginning and an end and has a structure to it, but allow us to move it along at the same time as we try to make sure that we take care of the business of the day, which is what the action plan attempts to do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not spend any more time on this one. I think the committee will work with the Minister to try and encourage this process along. One final comment in this area is that I recognize that the Minister has in his action plan emphasized the importance of an individual's personal responsibility for their own health. I would agree with him that is one of the key steps to getting this dialogue happening. I think that we need to make sure that we are really taking a long-term look at this, and it is going to take us working together over the next 18 months to even get it kicked off.

One other area that I have a particular interest in is the Addictions, Mental Health and Family Violence Strategy. The department has been working on this strategy for some time and a framework has been developed. I know that the standing committee following the business plans asked the department when we might expect to see some action on this. We were told January in the response to the business plans that we could expect to see the strategy probably by March this year. I would like to ask the Minister if we are expecting to see that strategy within the next couple of weeks, and will it come forward in time, for instance, to be tabled in this sitting of the Legislative Assembly?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This strategy is being pushed hard, and I am as Minister hoping to see a document by the end of March so that we can move on this. There are a lot of issues on the table tied into this, as evidenced by some of the discussion earlier this afternoon. I am looking at the end of March to do that. It ties in, of course, very clearly to the action plan and to a number of other initiatives that we have on the table that require completion and are going to have to be linked. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a real problem with regard to the increased number of children in foster care. I think as a government, we should learn from our history and from the past when there was a system of basically assimilating aboriginal children into white society during the 1920's and 1930's, when children were taken away from their parents for five to seven years. They have lost that connection with their parents. They lost that connection to their culture. They lost that connection to the rest of their family.

I think it is important that as a government, we should not be implementing something that is going to reinvent what we are seeing today. We have an aboriginal review that took place by way of a Royal Commission, which made some very strong recommendations on aboriginal children being put into institutions to the point where they are practically bounced from one form of institution. That could be with respect to foster care to juvenile delinquents going into that system, and eventually ending up in our correctional facilities.

I have a real problem with this major increase with regard to children in day care. One of the higher statistical phone calls that I have received in the last year is in the area of children being taken away from their parents. It seems like it has become a point of contention where social workers are now basically law enforcement officers who are going out apprehending children and having to come through the court system with their parents. For me, that is not the way you deal with trying to heal a family or even to protect a child -- to take a child away from its parents regardless of the statistical problems with their parents because of their social conditions such as unemployment.

Everybody knows that in order to find a way to resolve this, we have to look within. The legislation that has been in place, was this the intent of having to see this major increase in the number of children in foster care, because the legislation that was brought forth a couple of years ago? My concern is that we have to change the way we think. We have a major federal initiative going on right now regarding the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, which the majority of their focus is on children. I am trying to find a way to reunite children, families in aboriginal communities across the country because of the effects they have seen with hostels in the Northwest Territories.

In the communities I represent, Fort McPherson, the first hospital was built in 1897. In Aklavik, it was 1943. Yet today, we as a government are going back to the same mentality as almost a hundred years ago. I think we have to change the mentality of this government and quit trying to be the lord of the state and start institutionalizing children and the parents where they become social statistics and we need bigger facilities and institutions. Bigger jails. Build bigger care facilities for women, for juvenile delinquents. We have to find a way that we do not start going back to the mentality where we become a system where we are controlling everything.

People should have the ability to raise their families within the means of having the resources at hand to assist them when they need assistance. One of the programs that they have had in my riding with the Tl'oondih Healing Society who developed a family program to assist children, their parents, their grandparents and deal with the whole mentality of dealing with the family as a family -- not an individual that you see someone going to jail and that person is taken care of because he went to jail. You come back to the community and nothing is changed.

Here again, we are taking the children away from their parents, putting them in a different environment, and then wondering why the parents are continuing to drink or continuing to have a real problem trusting the people that they have out there to trust. The RCMP, the social workers, people within their communities that...

I think as a government we have to change the way that we implement programs and services. I believe with Mr. Dent, we do need a child advocacy group out there to ensure that the policies and regulations of this government are in place to protect children, not to protect us as an institution from the parents or the family or the different groups that are out there.

I think we have to somehow change the way we develop and implement programs and services because right now, the majority of the social workers in our communities are dealing with child custody matters. That is taking away the focus on our elders, our focus on people with disabilities, because they do not have enough time in the day to deal with every other issue that is in our communities.

I would strongly suggest to the Minister that you consider looking at some sort of a system that assists families to deal with their problems, deal with it within the family. You can either call family counseling or you can look at a program like they had with the Tl'oondih Healing Society, but implement programs to assist families, not to start institutionalizing our children and our people within our communities, within our society.

I would like to ask the Minister, will you consider looking at implementing a family program to assist families that are in crisis where the children are being taken away and put in foster homes so that they can find a mechanism to reunite those people so that these children do not grow up, as to what happened to their grandparents and their great-grandparents in the 1920's and 1930's, and reinvent the wheel by doing it all over again.

For me, I have a real problem with what is going on with this government, where we see the major increases that you are talking about regarding children who are in foster care today. I would like to ask the Minister, will you consider such a...