Yes, they are federal employees. They do it for the federal government. We do it on the forestry side of it, like I said before. Whenever there are forestry operations going on, we are responsible for the environmental monitoring, over the waters, the creeks and so forth. In the case of Cameron Hills, it would be the federal government's responsibility. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you. In terms of training environmental monitoring officers, I agree with the Member that whoever is going to be doing that kind of work must have some training. I know that there are different First Nations that have started environmental services they have gone joint with someone who is already established in the industry and provides training to get the First Nation people partners aware and trained up for the task at hand.

I think in our government Education, Culture and Employment is probably aware of the need for training our people in having this knowledge so that they can do their work properly and protect our environment.

As for our presence in the Cameron Hills, I am told that we are there not all the time, but on a regular basis. There is a fire camp up there. So in the summer time they use the camp on the Cameron Hills. I guess in that way there is a presence of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development employees up there. To specifically be involved in the oil and gas activity, I think some of our officers, on a regular basis, are there to see what is going on, to monitor the wildlife as well as making sure that the forest issue is dealt with, because when they do cut lines they do cut down a lot of forest.

To be specific I will have to ask members in the department to give me a break down as to who has been there, which officers and at what time, which days and for which reasons. I need to get more specific information. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all I want to clarify when I mentioned the Education, Culture and Employment I am just making reference that this is one area of training that the department has to look at. I am not saying that they are providing this service at this point in time.

As for who is up there, we can do that. Who has been there and for what reason and when they were there, we can get that information. As for the fire camp I just made a point that we do have a fire camp up there. Perhaps we use it, I do not know, but we do have that asset, that facility up there.

This is really a federal government initiative. Perhaps the honourable Member wants us to do the work of the federal government. If not then do we have to pressure the federal government to provide us with all the information that is going on up there? If we need to have our presence known up there to keep an eye on what is going on, I will have to look at that.

As for the monitoring group, this is a new initiative. The Cameron Hills operation is just starting to fire up now and they just got the necessary permits approved to go ahead to do the gathering of sites and to start building the pipeline, then they are going to continue to do some exploration there. So there is a lot of activity going on up there, I agree. Not knowing what is going on is very frustrating, I agree. We will do whatever we can to get all the necessary information about the whole Cameron Hills situation.

I mentioned before in other parts of this meeting earlier today that yes, I agree that there is a reality that Cameron Hills, with Paramount there, they are beginning to work towards building a pipeline. They are going to continue to do some exploration. What has happened to date in regard to the people in the Northwest Territories involved in that project and how it came about, what kind of benefits that we are going to get, I would like to look at the whole thing myself to have a better idea of what is going on so that we learn from it. If this is any indication of what is to come it is a really bad start. I think that we have to be better informed and prepare ourselves better as a result of this experience. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. We are dealing with environmental protection services. Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I echo the concerns that the Member raised on the territorial government's involvement in the areas of environmental protection. As a government we are spending a considerable amount of both financial and human resources and encouraging resource companies to come up here for development. Encouraging the federal government to assist us in development, but we do not seem to have the same gumption to go after the responsibility of the environment.

Environment is a very sensitive issue in the Northwest Territories. The people that I represent are very environmentally conscious, that is in their nature. That is the Dene way. The ecosystem up here is fragile, we all know, so protection of the environment should be paramount on the minds of those who are charged with that responsibility. Even if they have to get into faces of the federal government and what they are doing they should be aware of what is going on.

If this government's desires for devolution and taking on the responsibility of non-renewable resources then we better have an idea of what is out there. We better have an understanding of the different streams, the different ecosystems. Saying that it is not our responsibility and using that as an excuse not to be involved, maybe not to the extent that we want to be involved, does not negate the responsibility of knowing what is going on. If we do not know what is going on then it is pretty hard for us to react to anything.

We have one Member in the Parliament that is representing the entire Northwest Territories. It is a huge territory, Mr. Chairman. I would like to know what contingency plans the federal government has for spills on the Mackenzie River or for major oil spills on the winter road system. Or if there is an exploration camp in Cameron Hills and there is a spill over there or an environmental catastrophe, what are the contingency plans that the federal government has? What is the role of the government of the Northwest Territories? Those are the kinds of things that we should know about.

When I talk about the environmental assessment that should be done in Fort Resolution, there are elders over there that feel that the water problems of the pits are seeping into their stream system. It is not the environmental protection service of this government or the responsibility that the federal government has. The beavers seem to have dammed up the rivers and are clouding up the bad water from the pits that runs into the stream from getting into the Great Slave. Those are some of the observations that elders have in that area.

I do not know if there has been a post-environmental assessment done on that area by the federal government or this government. Even with the discussion of a possibility of reopening that site for redevelopment, that should initiate an environmental assessment. Even if there is nothing, based on the fact that there was major development, that there was a community there at one time it should necessitate that an environmental assessment be done so that we have an understanding what is there today. What is different from the immediate surroundings as compared to there?

On the area for training for oil and gas in questioning the Minister for Education, Culture and Employment today knowing the fact that the education level is different from regional centres and the communities. We talk about SNAP and the apprenticeship programs. Our students cannot even qualify for these apprenticeship programs because they do not even have the education system. The education system failed them.

I would like to encourage them to learn from the diamond area and the training that is done there and improve upon it. This is more a statement than a question, Mr. Chairman.

I thank you for the suggestion and the statement. I just want to say that the environmental protection is the federal government's responsibility. We are fully aware of it, but we are also very concerned about our environment, because it is our environment.

We are going to be here into the future with our people. So the environment is here. Whatever happens with it today we are going to have to live with it. So we are very aware of it. We need to keep on pursuing for devolution through the Intergovernmental Forum. This is a long-term goal for us, that we want to take control of our land and resources up here, so that we call the shots on it and then we can no longer have to say that it is a federal responsibility, but it will be our responsibility eventually. That is what we are going for.

We need to have regular reporting from the federal government who are responsible. Either DIAND or Oceans and Fisheries, but it is mainly DIAND because the permits for the mines and the oil and gas, they give water licences. So through those processes there are conditions in there for environmental protection through those permitting and licensing the mining or the oil and gas exploration or even the pipeline, they have to have their own contingency plans if there is a spill. I know that Enbridge pipeline that crosses the river up stream from Fort Simpson on the Mackenzie, they practice for eventual possibilities for oil spills every year and they have a plan. They have the equipment there. So I know that every company that is operating on our land knows the concern that we have and these are very strict environmental possibilities surrounding that. Thank you.

Agreed.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The decrease in that is due to the funds moving to minor capital. So there is a difference of $64,000. The energy program was transferred to O and M under the minor capital. It has not left the program it has just moved to another area. Thank you.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Agreed. Resource management and economic development, budget summary, operations expense, total operations expense, $35,597,000. Mr. McLeod.