This is page numbers 649 - 694 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, in my opinion, this is a good program. The people who are familiar with this camp, especially the one in Fort Providence, all agree the Wilderness Camp Program is a good program. However, there does not seem to be easy access to these camps. The people we are talking about who request to take this program and go to these camps are for the most part aboriginal people. We have a good success rate.

I do not know if I agree with some of the explanation where the deputy minister is stating that some of these people do not qualify to go. At some point, these people in the correctional facilities are going to be released. The ones I have talked to all have informed me that they have tried to get into the program. Even when they knew they had a release date of two or three months, they still wanted to take this program on the tail end of their sentence. However, they were not given that privilege.

If they are considered to be reformed, or whatever the assessment determines so that they can be released, surely they can be released into a camp for the last portion of their sentence, but we are not even getting that.

I do not know if there is a good explanation. I think there is a problem with the process and the system. If these people are on the verge of being released, I would think they could get into the camp program. There are very few of them getting into our camps. Our camps are being forced to shut down because they cannot get the people in the facilities. A lot of these communities and individuals have invested a lot of money into these facilities. We are not getting the response.

I do not know if I agree with that argument. I am not sure if this question was raised before, but I see it is being advertised for additional facilities. I am wondering if the Minister can explain what is happening there.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, it goes back to the point I made earlier, that our understanding of the wilderness camps is that it is voluntarily applied for.

I also understand from discussions with some of my colleagues in Justice that it is intended for those who are at low risk or may be prepared to re-enter into the community society. I do not have any statistics that tells my colleagues or me the number of those who may have applied or will apply.

The point here is the open custody camp facilities are available to those people. Again, I am not sure how they are assessed, but the point is, Mr. Chairman, it is available to those who voluntarily apply to go. We certainly encourage it, from our own perspective.

May I ask the Chair to allow Mr. Cooper to speak more specifically to the process?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Cooper.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Cooper

The inmates are made aware that at a certain point in their term of imprisonment, they will be eligible to go to a bush camp if they wish to, and the camp of their choice. We have had complaints from certain operators that perhaps they are not getting enough inmates.

On occasion, in response, we have made a special effort to go through the inmate population again. I have directed this at least twice to see if there are any inmates who are interested in going to a certain place. At the end of the day, it is voluntary.

Now, we are doing things in a certain fashion. Some inmates, not every single inmate that we have is deemed appropriate for the bush camp experience. That is a policy decision and one would have to change that. One would have to make a serious policy decision to say that the bush camp experience would be more beneficial to an inmate than would the closer supervision one would get in incarceration. I am not sure that would be the thing to do but we are supporting this program.

We are one of the very few jurisdictions in the country that does have such a program and we support it. It is working very well and we are trying to ascertain what the results of the program are now in terms of measures. Are the people who go to the bush camps succeeding better than those who do not go to the bush camps? These are issues that we have to deal with.

With respect to one other issue, the Member said we are going out and advertising for more bush camps. My understanding is that the contracts are up and they are all out for proposals again this year.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the area of community justice and corrections, this is an issue I had contacted the Minister on. I wanted to get it on the record here. In the area of the facilities that are maintained right now and those new ones that would be coming on line, issues were raised in my constituency around the programming that would be offered to inmates and the choice of programming, mainly in the area of church services and spiritual counselling.

As well, concerns were raised in the Delta. I received calls not only from my own constituents but also from the surrounding communities. They felt that family members who were in those facilities, however unfortunate that is, would not be allowed to practice their faith or the family faith that they have grown accustomed to. Those doors would be closed. Then, on top of that, concerns of if that is the case and they do not take that programming, or disagree to take it, they would be deemed as uncooperative or not wanting to take counselling and it would affect how they were dealt with.

I did communicate with the Minister on that issue. I wanted to raise it here again as an area of concern, just to ensure that as we are looking at newer ways of dealing with inmates, yes, some would be deemed appropriate. I think it is still a matter of individuals having the right to choose which services they could acquire in the area of spiritual counselling. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we give the individual the freedom of religion. Therefore, we are certainly not going to force the individual to practice other than what they believe. I do not see this as a reason for them to be penalized in any such way because they do have their own personal religion and convictions. I believe we shall respect that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Bell.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions about counselling for young offenders, specifically when it comes to addictions counselling. I wonder if the Minister can talk a bit about what our corrections division locally here in Yellowknife does. What kind of counselling is offered to young offenders with addictions problems?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With your permission, I would like to go out beyond the borders of Yellowknife and perhaps talk about my own personal experiences as a group home operator. Once the young offenders have experienced problems in terms of drug and alcohol addictions, we work with the individual to encourage them to take some formal counselling. We also have advocated in the past to talk to professionals. In this case, they would be utilizing the psychology services provided through Health and Social Services, the Inuvik Regional Health Board. If the Member needs further clarification, we are prepared to answer that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Bell.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

I guess I am looking for the Minister to discuss the programs that are available here locally. I have had some constituents contact me sometimes with children who are young offenders, wondering if in fact we have adequate counselling services for those who I guess (a), would be incarcerated, and then (b), others who are not. For youth who are not, sometimes it seemed to be a matter of having to get them into a facility in the south.

We are building a new facility here in the city and maybe the Minister could indicate if in fact counselling for addiction problems, if that programming will be offered in the new facility. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do not have specific details about programs but certainly our intention, and we will advocate the need to continue our support service in a number of areas, such as psychological counselling, alcohol and drug addictions counselling, joint family parental type of services. There is a wide range of them. Specifically, we do not have any information to the degree of the services provided at this time. We will take this and have it incorporated into the new facilities and the management of those new facilities. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Mr. Bell.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am wondering if the Minister can give me some indication how the department currently feels it is addressing this problem. I wonder if the Minister could possibly speak to whether or not they feel they have been successful in dealing with young offenders' addictions problems at this point.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I can draw on my own personal experience and talk in the generalities of the young offenders program and the rehabilitation process, yes, I believe the success rate is fairly high. I do not have any specific numbers.

From my own personal knowledge, they respond quite well. The problem is when they leave the facility and they turn into the adult age, then some of those problems reoccur.

In general, while they are in the system, there is a high level of success in addressing and re-addressing some of those problem areas. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you, Mr. Bell.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 13th, 2002

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

I appreciate his discussion of his personal experience. I am wondering if he would have any quantifiable data that might let us analyze how our approach has been working to this point, possibly compared to other jurisdictions. Would he have any sort of data that might back up his own personal experience that we have been successful inside the facilities but that there seems to be some degree of relapse or recidivism once the young offenders leave the facility? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Thank you. Minister Allen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, those are difficult questions to answer at the moment, but we will endeavour to provide that as soon as we can. Thank you.