Thank you, Mr. Allen. Mr. Cooper.
Debates of March 14th, 2002
This is page numbers 649 - 694 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Cooper
Mr. Chairman, as a result of the press release issued by the Yellowknife detachment of the Yellowknife RCMP late last month, I met with the commanding officer of "G" division. Of course, that press release spoke to the issue of under-capacity and the inability to continue with former levels of policing service in Yellowknife.
In the course of those discussions, the chief superintendent indicated to me that he was undertaking a widespread audit of all detachments, starting with the Yellowknife detachment with a commitment of 10 members, most of whom will be from F division in Saskatchewan. They are going to be auditing all of the police detachments and dealing with this issue of capacity head on. We should have those results within three months and be in a better position to rationalize any plan we might have with respect to increasing the "G" division complement at that time.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the best of my recollection, there has been no substantial increase in the funding for police services in about the last ten years, I believe. I would say we are long overdue to adjust the level of service we have in the contract, simply as a result of growth over the last ten years in our population.
I look forward to hearing from the Minister the results of the audit that the RCMP is taking and the government's response. The deputy said this would likely take place within the next three months. Will we likely have enough information for the Minister to make a statement about where he sees us heading with the police services agreement in the June session?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Certainly with respect to the Yellowknife detachment, as well as the other communities because it is incumbent upon ourselves, we will be travelling to several small communities in the next several weeks to discuss further some of the policing issues we raised as far back as last October to December and onward, ongoing to this day.
Yes, I am prepared to work with the Members to bring something back to the House here in June that might at least give an interim report or some formal report that reflects the ongoing work we are doing on a territorial basis. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Mr. Allen. Page 7-13, law enforcement, operations expense, total operations expense, $19,621,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Page 7-15, law enforcement, grants and contributions, contributions, $72,000.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
March 13th, 2002
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Page 7-17, public legal services, operations expense, total operations expense, $3,578,000. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the committee was examining the draft main estimates, we had some discussion with the Minister and his staff about the level of support for legal aid. There is some concern among committee members that the amount of money that is in the budget for legal aid is inadequate and the waiting list for service has become far too long.
I know we discussed with the Minister why we would not consider putting more money in. We were told that one of the things the Minister wanted to wait for was the federal study into legal aid, which is targeted to be concluded in 2003.
I would like to ask the Minister, why would we feel it necessary to wait for the completion of that study when we have such a backlog of cases right now? Why can we not advance money into legal aid? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My apology for the delay, Mr. Chairman. The point is well taken. I do not want to use this as an excuse, being relatively new to the portfolio, but if I may request of the Chair to allow Mr. Cooper to respond to that question. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Cooper
Mr. Chairman, the Member does have a valid point. The Legal Aid Society is an independent body, structured that way, but administered by the Department of Justice. We could benefit from an examination of the respective roles, however. While the Minister of Justice should never tell the society how to operate or interfere in any way with cases, when it comes to the administration of the public funds, we do need to take a closer look at that.
I would just like to add that most legal aid societies in this country are facing financial ruin and collapse. As an example, in Winnipeg, the most senior lawyer and the most serious criminal case would get paid $40 per hour. Our lawyers are paid $115 per hour, which is second only to Nunavut, which recently got a raise. Even at those figures, no one is getting wealthy doing these cases. It is a fair hourly rate for public legal services. We are one of a few jurisdictions that continue to fund family law matters. Most jurisdictions have cut that funding out completely and many, many jurisdictions will not give a legal aid certificate to those charged with criminal offences unless a conviction is likely to result in a term of imprisonment.
So while we have problems in our system, it should be pointed out that we remain one of the best systems in Canada in terms of delivery of service. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Though we may have a good system, or as good a system as anyone else in Canada, we still have the problem of a growing list of people who are waiting for service. When I look at what has happened over the past few years in terms of spending on legal aid, it is actually lower in the budget year that we are proposing than it was two years prior, 2000-2001, according to the book that we have.
In our budget books, it says that in 2000-2001, we spent over $3 million and we are proposing in 2002-2003 just under $3 million. Not a huge decrease, but that is what I see when I look at the Legal Aid Program. I may have jumped a bit ahead, Mr. Chairman, because I am looking at page 7-18, which outlines the details of the spending. I know we were talking about the program summary, but because those monies are included in the summary, I jumped ahead to look.
So our books are showing that we have, in effect, slightly decreased the amount of spending. Inflation has taken place. Our population has grown, so obviously -- at least, we think our population has grown. Stats Canada obviously does not. I am wondering why we would not at least keep up with inflation and put a little bit more money into legal aid. If we have it, why would we not try and put enough money in that so we can cut down on the waiting list? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would request that the Chair allow Ms. Dundas-Matthews to respond to that question. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Dundas-Matthews
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to confirm, I am not sure whether I follow the columns the Member is referring to. Is it the 2000-2001 actuals compared to the 2001-2002 main estimates? I am also not getting the fact that the budget is dropping.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Paul Delorey
Thank you, Ms. Dundas-Matthews. I think he is looking to the next page, 7-18. Mr. Dent, do you want to confirm that?