Debates of March 4th, 2002

This is page numbers 301 - 340 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Social Agenda Progress Report

Education Week 2002

Early Childhood Development

Free Vote On Bill 7

Passing Of Respected Dogrib Elder Moise Martin

Senior Citizens' Home Repair Program

25th Anniversary Of The Hay River Chamber Of Commerce

Storage Of Ammonium Nitrate In Enterprise

Early Childhood Development

Resources To Support The Transfer Of Programs And Services

Multi-use Recreational Facilities

Workers' Compensation Legislative Review Panel

Inuvik Twin Lakes Arctic Winter Games Participants

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Storage And Transportation Of Dangerous Goods

Criteria For Storage Of Dangerous Goods

Affirmative Action And Employment Equity

Transfer Of Mental Health Workers To Communities

Multi-purpose Community Complexes

Early Childhood Development Programs

Update On WCB Review Panel Report

Senior Citizens Home Repair Program

Consultation On Adoption Act Amendments

Update On The Kyoto Protocol

Economic Development Officer Funding

Fas/fae Information And Communications

Transfer Of Programs And Services In The Beaufort-delta

Tabled Document 15-14(5): 2001 Annual Report Public Utilities Board Of The Northwest Territories

Bill 11: An Act To Amend The Liquor Act

Bill 7: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly Retiring Allowances Act And The Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act

Bill 8: An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act And The Pharmacy Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Biannual Statistics On Rent Supplement Units And Developers Loan Guarantees (carried)

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 323

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to again speak in terms of the generalities and then I will ask the president to support my analogy here. With the declining involvement of CMHC dollars, that is what requires us to look at the long term again, how we can support development of private market housing as well as putting more people into private home-ownership.

There is a decline in the CMHC level of funding, so that is certainly what drives the process here towards us going out and developing partnerships with the communities and aboriginal governments, non-profit organizations, using different methodologies to approach housing developments. That is my preamble to what I would ask the president to respond to in terms of the specific program. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 323

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Beaulieu.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 323

Beaulieu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As indicated by the Minister, our agreement with CMHC is to decline to zero dollars by 2038 and it starts to decline next year, in fact, in some of the communities and gradually goes down until there is no more funding in that specific agreement with CMHC which pays for the operating or a portion of the operating of the 2,200 public housing units we have across the Territory.

This year, the corporation was able to sign an affordable housing agreement with CMHC for $7.5 million that will be used over the next four years to make housing affordable in the Northwest Territories with that money for a ten-year period. We are hoping as the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation continues discussions with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation more of these types of agreements will be put in place to replace the declining dollar, but at the same time, the corporation continues to discuss with CMHC the concept of leaving the social housing dollar agreements in place after the mortgages have been paid off and the funding was supposed to decline.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 323

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. At this time I would like to recognize the people in the gallery. Welcome to committee of the whole. Next on the list I have Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 323

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a few comments on the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's budget, recognizing the fact that they have a considerable amount of money to spend in the Northwest Territories to deal with the increased demand on social housing and the NWT Housing Corporation's role that it plays in trying to meet the needs of the people. One of the areas that I have some concerns with and I would like to try and get a good understanding of is one of the programs that the NWT Housing Corporation administers with their home repair program and the whole issue of requiring, especially seniors, to give a promissory note and a copy of the title for their property to hold.

The NWT Housing Corporation wants to hold this to secure mortgage for ten years when we are looking at sums of money in very low figures, sometimes around the $10,000 figure. Just to qualify to get the money, to be able to access the money, they have to give up a copy of their certificate of title.

I am wondering what the thinking is behind it and why you would put a senior through that when obviously some of them are saying, "no, you are not getting it and I just will not bother getting the work done." To me it is kind of disturbing. It is disturbing to seniors. I am trying to get from the NWT Housing Corporation what the thinking is behind that whole scenario and why they would do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier today I responded to that question and what we did confirm was that the seniors are eligible for up to a $20,000 forgivable loan every ten years. That forgiveness is a minimum of $2,000 per year. We do not even require that they sign over their home to the NWT Housing Corporation. So, if I may, Mr. Chairman, ask Mr. Beaulieu to add further substance to that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Was there a time when this was in place where you required the senior to give up a copy of his ownership to secure the money? Was that a program that the NWT Housing Corporation was administering?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask the president to respond to that question.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Beaulieu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Up until this upcoming fiscal year, the NWT Housing Corporation had seniors sign agreements for up to ten years for the Senior Citizens Home Repair Program regardless of the amount of money that was utilized up to $20,000 even if an individual had borrowed or had been given a loan for $2,500. We also felt that was a problem and we incorporated a minimum amount of forgiveness annually, so the agreement is given over a time period at a minimum of $2,000 per year. So, if an individual senior was to get $4,000 worth of repairs, they will receive full forgiveness in two years and the forgiveness is in place only to protect the seniors themselves from tax implications of getting their one-time outright grant. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another area that I would like to touch on is where you have programs to help with public housing and there is a distinct need out there for somebody who is really badly in need, maybe a single mother with kids who is trying to secure a place of residence for herself and is involved in maybe a court battle with an ex-husband or something and is looking for a short-term solution to a funding problem.

What are the latitudes that the people within the NWT Housing Corporation who are administering the programs have? How much latitude do they have to stray from the hard lines that the programs call for when you look at an individual? Can you look at an individual case with somebody and say, "Okay, well maybe we can come up with a short-term solution to this," or is it cut and dried with the programs that the people cannot stray at all and try and help somebody that is in core need? Where does the decision have to go for somebody to finally say, "We are going to help this person on a short-term basis so that they do not get put out on the street or they are not rendered homeless because of policy lines that we have to follow?" Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

The president of the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Beaulieu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister is aware, the government has a policy. Policy is the only thing protecting the bureaucrats who are trying to deliver programs. When it is time for a change or if the policy does not fit the situation, the bureaucrats or the senior people in the field or in headquarters have the option to come up with a decision paper that we have developed internally which we refer to as a presidential decision paper and decisions are brought up to my level for the final decision to be made by myself on these issues.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

The Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, once a decision is made that, let us say the NWT Housing Corporation has levelled a final decision, is it kind of a closed case then or seen as going over the president's head if the Minister is requested to review this thing and maybe have a second look at it? What is the proper procedure? If I do not agree with a decision that is coming down, what is the proper procedure for me to get it to be looked at again? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

The president of the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Beaulieu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of course, in our structure the Minister would still have the final say if the Minister chooses to make a policy decision that overrides myself as president. Then I am obligated to carry out the decision of the Minister and there is no problem there.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, those are all the questions I have for now, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 324

The Chair David Krutko

Next on the list, the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 325

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister more questions about what he has in store for providing affordable lots in the city of Yellowknife. I have pursued these questions in the House, but I was not quite clear about exactly what the Minister's plan is and I was wondering if he could help me understand that? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 325

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen.

Debates of March 4th, 2002

Topics

Help us improve OpenNWT