This is page numbers 341 - 388 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen, Mr. Bell, Mr. Braden, Mr. Delorey, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Honourable Joe Handley, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Lee, Mr. McLeod, Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Nitah, Honourable Jake Ootes, Mr. Roland, Honourable Vince Steen, Honourable Tony Whitford.

-- Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

2002 Legislative Assembly Youth Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to make some comment in the area of education and its value to the Northwest Territories, specifically a couple of things that are going on or have gone here in this Legislature. I would like to refer to the week of February 3rd to 8th when we conducted and supported the NWT Legislative Assembly Youth Parliament, Mr. Speaker.

You, along with your staff, did a remarkable job of coaching and working with representatives from across the NWT that took our places here. Based on my experience with this program for the term that I have been here in this Assembly, I am particularly optimistic about our youth and am very committed to the program that the Legislature has had with the Youth Parliament. This year, sitting as the Member for Great Slave was a constituent, Liselle Cook, a grade 11 student from St. Pat's. She has lived in Fort Good Hope and now Yellowknife. She speaks North Slavey and English, and she has also participated in the Western Leadership Program. She is certainly an example of the leadership involvement and development on behalf of the youth of our Territory.

As a young resident, Miss Cook presents an ideal role model through the Youth Parliament Program. The statement and questions she asked on health care illustrated a good understanding of the concerns on behalf of her constituents and mine, Mr. Speaker. I do not believe we acknowledge sufficiently the successes of some of our resident role models. Young people are much more receptive to absorbing the message from their peers and acknowledged role models. This government should provide greater support to those people who actively support healthy living and active lifestyles. If we can encourage our young people to be more health conscious and take on leadership roles in the communities and participate in sports, this will certainly pay long-term dividends in the future of our health care costs.

In closing, I wish to offer my congratulations to Miss Cook and indeed, all Youth Parliament Members, and again, Mr. Speaker, to you and the staff of this Assembly who make this such a success. Thank you.

-- Applause

2002 Legislative Assembly Youth Parliament
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

What can one say? Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

High School Grade Extensions
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on an issue that has been raised in this House on many occasions, and it has to do with education. Mr. Speaker, it has been some time that this government has moved away from regional centres in the sense of providing high school classes in those centres, and have gone out to extended grades, as they call it, and moved to other communities in the Northwest Territories to provide higher levels of education to try to address the issue of young men and women having difficulties adjusting or moving into larger centres to get a higher education.

Mr. Speaker, it has been some time since that move has happened. I think it is time to see if we are measuring up in terms of providing successes in those areas. The move was not only to have more students going to school, but to have more success in going to school and have more graduates for residents of the Northwest Territories.

What we found in the community of Inuvik was that we were negatively impacted in the sense that when the students no longer came to our community that lowered the number of teachers we were able to have in our schools and that impacted our ability to deliver specialized programs in the sciences and so forth.

Mr. Speaker, I think we need to look up as well since those days, at the success rates we have had in the Northwest Territories amongst grads competing with those across the country to see where we have gone with the numerous changes we have done within education and other sectors in this government. In fact, Mr. Speaker, it was enough of a concern to the Beaufort-Delta leaders in my area that they raised the issue and pushed to have tests start again to measure where students were. Mr. Speaker, we found that when those tests were performed, a lot of our students were not measuring up in the sense of national marks or the national standard, and we found that we had some work to do.

I think those tests show the result, Mr. Speaker. One is the measurement of where we stood in the process of education, teaching our youth, and it is also a help to parents, Mr. Speaker, that we need to be able to measure where our children are. With that, Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the appropriate Minister. Thank you.

-- Applause

High School Grade Extensions
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Inclusive Schooling Challenges
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, inclusive schooling was introduced in the Northwest Territories to ensure the constitutional right of all students, regardless of any physical or developmental handicaps, to receive a quality educational experience with their peers. This has meant students with learning, developmental and physical impairments are no longer separated from the general school population and attend the same schools and classes as other able-bodied students the same age.

Mr. Speaker, inclusive schooling has changed the way teachers make lesson plans. There is no longer just one lesson plan for the entire class. Depending on the number of special needs children in their class, there can be several different lesson plans for the same class. Between making all of these lesson plans, supervising the work of the special needs assistants and teaching the regular lesson, the workload of the average teacher has increased dramatically since the introduction of inclusive schooling, and I commend teachers for their dedication.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, special needs assistants are expected to deal with the medical issues and needs of students with severe handicaps, something for which most special needs assistants have received very little formalized training. In fact, Mr. Speaker, one can argue that in some cases, the special needs assistants are actually personal caregivers.

So where does that leave us? We have a system that does not, apparently, separate the inclusive schooling needs of those students with medical issues from those students with learning or developmental issues. We have special needs assistants who are expected to deal with medical issues that they are not trained to deal with. In some cases, dealing with the medical and physical needs of the child preclude the special needs assistant from actually helping the student with their education.

Mr. Speaker, if we want inclusive schooling to work, the district education authorities must have adequate funding to meet the needs of the students. Funding must be provided so those students who require extensive help to function receive one-on-one support. The DEAs must have the funding to ensure they can either hire special needs assistants with medical training or pay for their training.

For example, has the department considered offering a program through Aurora College to train special needs assistants? I realize the department has increased the funding to the district education authorities for special needs schooling and, as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the budget for 2002-2003 that is presently before this Assembly will increase the amount of funding for special needs schooling to the DEAs one year in advance of the legislative requirement. However, I am not convinced that as a government, we are doing enough to support the DEAs in delivering inclusive schooling in our communities.

I will be following up with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment during question period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Inclusive Schooling Challenges
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Funding For Student Support Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too would like to rise today to speak about the funding for student support services. I am also heartened by the government's response in the budget, making sure we have achieved the level targeted for student support services in subsequent years a full year early. This was the approach recommended by the committees of this House and I am pleased the government heard our request and acted.

So next year, Mr. Speaker, we will spend the average spent by other jurisdictions in Canada on student support services. Yes, we have done well, but we can and we should do better. We keep hearing stories about the challenges faced in the classroom. We hear that we have a higher number of students with special needs than the average across Canada.

As Mrs. Groenewegen has just said, we have a large number of students who have severe problems in the classroom and require extensive support. We also know we have a higher number of students at different grade levels in one classroom because of the problems they face. With the number of small schools in the Northwest Territories, we probably have more multi-age grouping classes than is average across Canada.

Our kids right now do not have good enough access to assessment for the challenges they face. Mr. Speaker, I know this is true in Yellowknife, so it must be even more of a challenge to get a proper assessment done in a smaller community. I know I have been called by constituents because their child cannot be assessed. Recently, a constituent told me she and her family had to spend $4,000 to take their child south because they had waited and waited and waited for an assessment, and it did not appear to ever be getting done.

Mr. Speaker, if we have more challenges in the classroom than the average, we cannot be satisfied with achieving the level of funding that just matches the Canadian average. We must set the bar higher. We must not be satisfied that we have achieved the level of funding for student support services set in legislation a year early.

Mr. Speaker, let us commit to continuing to increase the funding each and every year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Funding For Student Support Services
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

High School Graduation Rates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about graduation rates in the Northwest Territories. A few decades ago, even less in some of our communities, families were forced to send their children away to receive an education. This was not always an easy choice or decision, but parents had to decide what was best for their child at the time.

However, today we have an education system that offers grade extensions in the communities, allowing children to stay with their families and receive their schooling. Grade extensions on balance have been a good thing, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion.

Also in the past, the focus of education seemed to be more towards preparing our students for life after high school. We wanted to ensure our youth could move into meaningful employment or continue on to post-secondary institutions. There were also fewer curriculum options at the high school level, Mr. Speaker, and students were required to pass more grade 12 level core courses.

Mr. Speaker, graduation requirements have changed. In order to receive a high school diploma, students must pass the grade 12 English course and two others at the grade 12 level. Subjects such as grade 12 level math, science or social studies are no longer required courses to get a high school diploma in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, it disturbs me to think we may have watered down our academic requirements too much. Our graduation levels may be increasing, but we have to ask ourselves, at what expense? Are our children equipped with the necessary level of education to go onto post-secondary schools? I am not so sure, Mr. Speaker.

I have looked into Alberta education requirements for high school graduation. To a great extent, we are comparable, Mr. Speaker, but there are some subtle differences. In Alberta, students are required to complete grade 12 level English and social studies, along with ten credits in other grade 12 level courses. Here in the Territories, Mr. Speaker, we need only pass a grade 12 level English course, plus 10 credits of other grade 12 level courses.

In Alberta, Mr. Speaker, a student receives a pass mark in a grade 12 diploma course if they receive a blended mark of 50 percent. Also the same here, Mr. Speaker. However, if we get a 48 percent here, we say that we are close enough.

I have also had the opportunity to compare student final grade marks, diploma exam marks and blended marks of the grade 12 level diploma courses. Mr. Speaker, our students' marks are falling short. I believe we need to be up-front about our performance and set out to address it. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

High School Graduation Rates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Bell, you may conclude.

High School Graduation Rates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and colleagues. We need to ensure our education system is preparing our youth for meaningful and fulfilling lives. We need more focus on setting performance goals, measuring that performance, publicly reporting on it and striving to improve it. Graduation rates as we currently measure them may not be meeting our needs.

Mr. Speaker, some of these issues are difficult and uncomfortable to address, and we certainly do not have all the answers and have to be careful not to point fingers at our schools and teachers. Certainly parents need to shoulder as much responsibility for supporting the goals and aspirations of our youth. It is hard to imagine that our performance will improve, Mr. Speaker, if we assume no learning takes place after 3:00 p.m.

Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to continue to support improvement in our education system for the sake of our youth. Thank you.

-- Applause

High School Graduation Rates
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Community Supports And Student Success
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, watching the show West Wing on Wednesday last week, a quote that the acting president said caught my ear. He said, "Education is a silver bullet to cure a lot of ills in our society." I am thankful to my colleagues in this House for making education a priority in the House today.

In the Northwest Territories, our education system should be one of the best, but unfortunately, it is not responding in that nature. The system is not responding to the needs of our communities and our communities are unfortunately not responding to the education system, Mr. Speaker.

It takes a family, it takes a community and it takes partnership to have a good working education system. A lot of the problems with the school system in our communities where we see grade levels far behind grade levels in other parts of the Territories, Yellowknife, for example, compared with Lutselk'e, Yellowknife compared with Edmonton, Lutselk'e compared with Edmonton.

My office called a lot of schools during the last couple of days asking about different programs. Even if the parents are not helping the children, which they should and they must make education a priority in order for the children to grow up independent and healthy, most of the schools and teachers my office spoke to are saying that most of the schools in the communities do not bother to rely on the parents to help the children because of the background or lack of education the parents have, and the parents have a lack of interest because of that.

There is also a question of space in the home and quiet time for the children to study. A lot of our homes are overcrowded. Most times, the teachers stay after school to help the students. They do not send homework home because it does not come back, Mr. Speaker.

In some schools, if the parents were able to go to groups with their younger children, it would help because they would learn together. Even the communities that have programs for adults find that adults are not interested in some of these programs. All teachers feel that by working together, the education system would be more responsive and more successful. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Community Supports And Student Success
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Junior High School For Rae
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is on education. Thirty years ago, this government tried to create a town called Edzo. They wanted to move the people from Rae, so they built the school in Edzo. For 30 years, we transported our children back and forth -- safely, I have to say. However, now the community of Rae wants to maximize the use of the facility in Edzo, which is part residential and part school. They have asked for a junior high school in the community of Rae. The plan for the school in Edzo is to use it for mine training, oil and gas, for economic development, whatever is out there. They did petition the Minister on that.

This government is putting infrastructure into some communities, but only putting half of the infrastructure in. We have a whole infrastructure here that we can use. In Inuvik, they are putting in a college without a residence being included. That is only half and that is a shame.

We have infrastructure in the Dogrib region that we can use. I want to make a statement saying that for too long, the small communities have gone without. It is time that we started maximizing on every structure we put in place and it is time we listened to the people as to what they want.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions on this later. Thank you.

Junior High School For Rae
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Pupil-teacher Ratio Versus Class Sizes
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in honour of Education Week this week, I would like to join my colleagues here and speak on the education issue. I want to talk about the PTR versus class size.

Mr. Speaker, I am a product of the local education system and I am very proud of what it has offered me. It has given me a lot, especially in higher grades and post-secondary education. I believe we are second to none, but I am worried about the class size in the lower grades.

Mr. Speaker, I know we are proud of our record of putting more money and legislating the PTR ratio to 16:1, but the fact is that as we speak, there are a lot of lower grade classes where there are up to 30 kids in a classroom.

I am really tired of hearing people do not understand the difference between PTR and class size, and then some parents getting upset that we are being funded at the territorial national average. I think in some ways, it is creating division between bigger communities like Yellowknife and other communities. I think that in the communities, schools are crowded as well. It is not right for some people to think there are ten kids sitting with one teacher in a smaller community and 30 kids to one in Yellowknife.

I think we have to revisit what is included in terms of staffing for the PTR. The very pamphlet that the department has sent out shows there are a lot of essential positions that are not included in the PTR formula. The Minister has even communicated in writing to us about what is not included, such as the librarian position, the special physical education position, consultant positions or counsellors.

I understand it is up to the local boards to decide how they are going to use their resources and that affects the class size. To me, Mr. Speaker, that is just passing the buck. It really does not matter who is making the decision. We have to look at the classroom size and these are positions that are essential. If that is bringing up the class size high but keeping the PTR rate low, then we have to revisit that.

I think in the end, what matters is what is happening in reality, not what is happening on paper or what the average is or anything like that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Pupil-teacher Ratio Versus Class Sizes
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

South Slave Student Achievement Test Scores
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too would like to address our education system. I would like to start off by stating, Mr. Speaker, that we owe a large debt of gratitude to our teachers throughout the education system. Our teachers are to be commended for the work they do on a daily basis to encourage our children to receive quality education.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the Minister of Education and his departmental officials for the obvious increased focus they are placing on the education system...

-- Applause

...as evidenced by events like Education Week, currently in full swing throughout the North.

In Hay River, Mr. Speaker, Harry Camsell Elementary School is holding a scholastic book fair this week, along with a geography challenge for the students. Those students are also hard at work on their science fair projects.

Mr. Speaker, Peter Grimm, the principal at the Princess Alexandra School in Hay River, has said that the theme of Education Week, Changing Land, Changing Peoples, is very relevant to his school students. As most of you are aware, the school has been undergoing renovations for some time now. Peter remarked that the students have been very tolerant with each other and with the teachers and have performed wonderfully under the changing working conditions. In addition, parent-teacher interviews are being held this week at Princess Alexandra school to discuss student progress.

Mr. Speaker, I firmly believe we as legislators have an inherent responsibility to ensure our students continue to receive the highest quality of education possible. To this end, I was very disillusioned to learn of the low rankings of students in the South Slave region on the Canadian and Alberta achievement tests.

Mr. Speaker, a three-year summary compiled in November of 2001 showed that over 50 percent of the South Slave region grade 9 students scored below the acceptable standards on the Alberta test for mathematics in the years 1999-2001. I find these numbers unacceptable, Mr. Speaker. The numbers are slightly more encouraging in language arts, as only an average of 28 of the students scored below the acceptable standards on the Alberta achievement tests.

Mr. Speaker, the scores for South Slave grade 6 students writing the Alberta achievement tests in mathematics showed that only 51.4 percent of the students attained the acceptable standard. The numbers were slightly higher in language arts, Mr. Speaker, as 53.5 percent...

South Slave Student Achievement Test Scores
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Mr. Delorey, the time for your Member's statement has ended. Mr. Delorey.

South Slave Student Achievement Test Scores
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

South Slave Student Achievement Test Scores
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Delorey.