This is page numbers 427 - 478 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not going to be long. I just wanted to add something that I did not have a chance to state yesterday. I was one of the first people to speak and you do not get a chance to speak twice. I just wanted to state for the record that I maintain the position that while there was some contribution by Members of the last Assembly and there will be for this Assembly, I do believe still that the majority of the funding is public money.

Second, while there is a surplus, that is not going to last forever. There will come a time when there will be a need for the government to contribute to this fund as long as it lasts. I do not assume that once passed, I do not think another Assembly will come in and try to discontinue it in the next ten years.

Third, I have heard that the surplus is there because of good investment and that most of the money gained is a result of investment. That is true, but I still maintain that if you make $100 out of one dollar in government money, that $101 still is government money.

I heard someone say that we do not want to set a precedent of the government dipping into pension plans, and I agree with that position. I was interested to see on Northbeat last night that in fact, the government had a precedent, I believe it is the federal government, I do not think it is the territorial government, but governments have dipped into union money. I do not agree with that, but the option remains that had the Members agreed to spend all or a portion of the surplus money, transfer it to general funds, that is an option that we could have exercised and that would not constitute the government dipping into a pension fund. It would be the other way around, where the beneficiaries of pensions are voluntarily giving the money back into government funds.

I just wanted to add that point. I agree with the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake that the responses I have been getting from the public are that I am on the right side with the public. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. General comments. Mr. McLeod.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I want to reinforce my comments yesterday and state that I will not support this bill. It is very hard to consider such a decision. When you look at the surplus that is in this plan and look at the state that my communities are in, it really makes it an easy decision on my part.

We saw this year a small injection in terms of housing capital put into the North, around $7 million, and it has resulted in 300 new units in the Northwest Territories. We start looking at a surplus of $8 million in this plan, I can see some good ways to spend it.

I do not believe, and yesterday I said that in my opinion, we should terminate all supplementary pensions, because as long as there are people getting a supplementary pension from this government, it will continue to plague us. It will never go away. There will always be people who get elected in, whether it is this Assembly, the 15th Assembly, the 16th Assembly, whenever, that will look back and see some people collecting a benefit, a pension, and the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, and them saying "Why not me?"

I cannot support it. I will not support it. I will not be supporting any of the many amendments that are out there. I believe some of these amendments are pressure tactics to be used against some of us voting against it. I do not appreciate that. I think we should be allowed to vote freely on this. Cabinet has been given that freedom by the Premier and we all deserve that right.

That is my position on it and I do not plan to change it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. General comments. What is the wish of the committee? Ms. Lee.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Sorry, I just want to take this opportunity to say that I know there has been a lot of animosity, and I just asked my colleague next to me why he does not get any heckling when he speaks on a position, but I seem to get it all the time. Anyway, I want to say that I believe in free debate, I believe we had a very good debate yesterday. I thought it was really good.

-- Interjection

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 461

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

I am speaking to the bill.

-- Interjection

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

And you can speak again, as long as I wait for everyone to speak, I believe. I would like to say that I appreciate the position of everyone and that I appreciate that everyone articulated their position. I believe that as much as I have the right to speak here on behalf of my constituents, I appreciate that everyone else here has the right to take their position. The only people we are accountable to are the people out there.

I do not mean any disrespect or anything personal in saying what I say in this House, as passionate -- and my choice of words may offend some. Every word I use I choose carefully, and I mean what I say. I am prepared to stand by them. I respect others to say that.

I would never pressure anyone else to do anything or try to convince them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

-- Applause

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Is the committee ready for clause by clause?

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Page 1, part 1, clause 1.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Clause 2.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 7th, 2002

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Page 2, clause 3.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Page 3, clause 4.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Clause 5. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 11-14(5): To Pave Main Streets Of Non-tax-based Municipalities (carried)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I was not anxious to see...actually, I was opposed to seeing this bill come forward. It obviously had enough support to proceed. We recently had a panel take a look at our compensation. The panel came back and they did recommend that we take a look at our pension, so while I think it is right that we examine the pension issue, the panel was also very clear that the recommendations they made regarding our compensation should come into effect after the next election.

That means that the Members are not seen to be voting for a benefit that they themselves can get, and it also makes it a situation where it becomes an issue in the next election, so that those Members who choose to run again or new Members can discuss during the election whether or not they support the pension and have an opportunity then to hear from their constituents what their opinions are.

For that reason, I would like to propose an amendment to this bill. The purpose of this amendment would be to have the bill not be in effect for those of us who are elected to the 14th Assembly. The bill would come into force on dissolution of the 14th Assembly, so it would only affect Members who were elected to the 15th Assembly.

Committee Motion 12-14(5): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 7 By Deleting Proposed Subsections 6(5) And (6) (defeated)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Therefore, Mr. Chairman,

I MOVE that clause 5 of Bill 7 be amended by deleting proposed subsections 6(5) and 6(6). Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 12-14(5): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 7 By Deleting Proposed Subsections 6(5) And (6) (defeated)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 462

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

The motion is being circulated. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Ms. Lee.