Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 8, section 7 of the Adoption Act, it states subject to subsection 8 "Where the director has reason to believe the child who is to be placed is or will be an aboriginal child, the director shall, before making any decision in respect of the proposed placement, consult with the aboriginal organization." It would be the applicable aboriginal organization in respect of the child and the circumstances as described in section 25 of the Child and Family Services Act. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister exactly how do you determine this status of that child in regard to membership? Who do you go to first? Do you go to the tribal council? Do you go to the band council or do you go to the family? Who does this process intervene with first and what is the process?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, each case is looked at individually. The process is to determine if the child in question is or will be a member of a specific kind of group, aboriginal government and then from there the process is followed to involve the appropriate aboriginal government, in addition to the family and appropriate community members. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister exactly where do the grandparents of these children fit into this?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is an opportunity in the issue of an adoption where when the assessment is done, and if an adoption, not a custom adoption but if a regular adoption is contemplated where the appropriate family members will be consulted and involved. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to custom adoption and the other process of having children adopted through the present bill that is there, which process supersedes which process? Does the custom adoption supersede the adoption under this bill?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This has no impact on custom adoption. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is exactly my point, that presently existing adoption rules and acts that we have, have no teeth. When it comes to custom adoption, there are very few adoptions that take place in which children who are usually taken away or put into a foster home, when the families argue to get those children back and they go into the adoption process, a large majority of the time those children that account for custom adoption will not be considered. It is usually adopted out, a decision by a social worker who usually is not in the community, because the child is usually elsewhere.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, that the present rules and regulations you have, the adoption process supersedes any aboriginal involvement by way of custom adoptions and ensuring that the organizations or institutions that those children originate under, by membership, are not being considered. Unless you strengthen that legislation, it does not mean boo. So I would like to know exactly how are you going to do it so that legislation is improved so that does not happen?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to restate that this proposed amendment does not affect the custom adoption process. It applies to formal adoptions under the Adoption Act and to the Family Law Act. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister state exactly, say within the request of an aboriginal organization, to say the band council or tribal council which puts the motion forward through an assembly motion or a band council resolution, that none of their children be adopted to same-sex couples? Where does that stand by way of this legislation? Does that motion or resolution from the band council supersede what we are doing here?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that type of motion would be strongly considered in the process, but the involvement of the parents are the key determinant. If there was a decision to be made and there was some conflict, there would be further consultation.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister has not made it clear to myself exactly what is the status of aboriginal membership in regard to determining where their members go? Once you adopt a child out of a band or a community organization, at what stage can they stop that from happening by way of resolution, jumping up and down, screaming bloody murder, whatever you want to call it, what do they have to do at that point? I do not think you as a Minister, have a clue on exactly what is going to happen when you come to that decision.