This is page numbers 833 - 910 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we have heard a number of questions on this. This has obviously been discussed for a bit, as plans were put in, proposals were put forward by the groups to have the extra positions in Aboriginal Affairs put in, but again, a concern that I have with the supplementary appropriation in our tight funding situation, we are still not overflowing with money coming into this government, as our continued expenditures seem to be after the fact. This is another one of them.

Aboriginal Affairs has grown constantly since we have come into this Assembly. I can recall the Minister taking heat on it from the committee a while back because the department had come in for increases back-to-back, and at one point said there would be no more increases. We are once again increasing and there are more office renovations.

Again, there are serious concerns about what we are doing. It seems to be a common practice, more and more, that we are going to let these things happen and not try to make do with putting some temporary partitions up until we know for sure who is going to be there and how long they are going to be there.

I do not know, Mr. Chairman, if we have support here to remove this amount of money, but we have to start setting some examples here for everybody to start paying attention. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Are you going to make a motion? It was a comment. Mr. Lafferty.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have listened to some of the questions and I have a really good question to ask the Minister; why are we renovating more offices when we have the Laing Building almost completed and we have all of these offices that will be available? Are there going to be staff in all of those offices up there that we cannot put MAA in there?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, the information I have is that the Laing Building is full. The Audit Bureau, who were in the space the MAA is occupying on the third floor of the Precambrian Building, are moving over to the Laing Building, but there is essentially no space. We could not put MAA over there.

The other thing we have to keep in mind is that the MAA is releasing some space on the ninth floor as well, but there is no room in the Laing Building to crowd them in there. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Lafferty.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Will there be any savings upon them releasing these offices?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, yes, there will be some savings. I do not have the amount right now, but when they give up the lease on some of the space on the ninth floor, there will be some savings. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some concerns that I would like to express on this item. I know that many times since I have come into this Assembly, we have met with Aboriginal Affairs' requests for extra funding. I can remember distinctly asking the Minister at one point if he anticipated anymore growth in Aboriginal Affairs, or if they were going to be coming back to us for more funding. His comments were that this would probably be the last time they would be coming to us because he did not think the department would be growing anymore or needing any extra funding.

As things progressed with the department, there would be people getting freed up from different tables and filling up roles that they needed from beyond. Obviously that has not happened and they keep coming before us for more and more. Now, we seem to be expanding into many different roles and more groups coming on board. This $200,000 for renovations to office space, I guess it is a way of breaking up expenses, but when we look at the cost of setting up an office for a secretariat for the devolution process, this could just as easily be wrapped up in the same figure.

I have not seen a lot of indication where the department is trying to find money from within. When you look at $1.2 million for setting up a secretariat for devolution negotiations right off the bat, that is an awful lot of money. Another $100,000 here for the Dene Nation, and then $200,000 here for renovations, and the costs just keep going up.

Again, as I mentioned today in my Member's statement, all of it comes here. It is all to Yellowknife. Was there any consideration given to maybe moving it outside of Yellowknife? What would be the reason for having to be in a high-rise building in Yellowknife and renovating buildings that we do not own and spending these huge amounts of dollars? Is there any indication that we are even looking at trying to do something outside of Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Handley.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I will refer that to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, the honourable Member for Hay River North has raised a lot of questions and concerns here. I did say to Members when we were talking about taking on the different negotiating tables a couple of years ago, the discussion and concern at that time was that I was hiring too many negotiators to represent the government at all these different specific tables. That was the basis of debate at that time.

At that time, all the tables started moving and we needed the different negotiators to represent the government at these tables. There was concern by the Members that the Aboriginal Affairs group at the negotiating tables was growing very rapidly. I did agree with the Members. At that time, I was told by the officials, when I asked them if we were going to be hiring more negotiators, they indicated no. I made a commitment here to the Members that I was not going to hire any more negotiators. Since that time, Aboriginal Affairs has been growing.

I think the Finance Minister also gave the information that there was a change in the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs. The Intergovernmental Forum Secretariat was in the Executive and it was moved to Aboriginal Affairs, so there were three different positions there which are not new to government. It was Executive positions that moved to Aboriginal Affairs.

At the same time, we also are now seeking funds to hire negotiators for the Intergovernmental Forum. This has evolved over the last few years. There is a need to have these positions included in Aboriginal Affairs, since we are responsible for the Intergovernmental Forum. If the Intergovernmental Forum Secretariat remained in the Executive, these positions would have gone to the Executive. It was a Cabinet decision to move the Intergovernmental Forum closer with Aboriginal Affairs. There is an increase in the PYs.

I must also indicate that the Aboriginal Affairs core group is located on the seventh floor of the Precambrian Building, but two years ago, once the full contingent of the negotiators were on-stream, additional space was found on the ninth floor of the Precambrian Building. With these additional staff we have taken on and are going to be taking on, the office space on the ninth floor was too small to accommodate everyone.

Since the third floor was vacated by the Audit Bureau, and it is also a government lease, as you know there are a number of office buildings in Yellowknife that our government has long-term leases with to try and accommodate all the different government departments. In the Precambrian Building, upon the Audit Bureau vacating the third floor, it is still a government lease. There was a requirement there to configure it to accommodate the implementation sector of Aboriginal Affairs that was on the ninth floor in with the Intergovernmental Forum group that is going to move in there. That was the nature of the request.

As for the possibility of relocating it out into the communities, we have explored that but Aboriginal Affairs, through negotiations, plays a coordinating role at the different negotiating tables. We need to be continuously meeting with the other departments after the session is over and getting ready for the next session. It makes sense to be located in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Delorey.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I keep hearing the ninth floor, the seventh floor, the third floor -- when everything is said and done, how many floors are we going to be occupying and how many offices in total are we occupying with this department? How many offices does this department have? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we will continue to occupy the fourth floor, which is the core floor that we have in the Precambrian Building, and we will have part of the third floor after this is all said and done. We are going to have approximately 30 offices. I am not too sure right now. I need to double check on that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Braden.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Mr. Chairman, something that I try to avoid is getting into micro-managing. Once in a while, something really invites a challenge though, and this is one of them. I would like to move on. I think that we have sent a couple of signals to the government, one of them that projects such as this initiative, requirements such as this, even though you see it more and more, have got to be kept within reason.

I think this, in anyone's judgment, with the information we have been given anyway, is an extraordinary amount of money to spend on a renovation in a building that we do not own. The message to government is that on anything that is going on of this nature, anywhere, is look at it very carefully to make sure we are getting value for the money.

The other message, as Mr. Bell pointed out, is where is the urgency? Where is the high priority? How is it that this could not have been folded into a business plan or some other kind of longer range or longer term situation? This is not a temporary situation. Devolution negotiation, division, and the Intergovernmental Forum and Aboriginal Affairs are going to be here for years. The place for this kind of project in a supp is really not warranted. Mr. Chairman, that is my comment on this one. Let us move on. I think we have sent a message here. Detail, please.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We are dealing with the Executive, capital investment expenditures, Aboriginal Affairs, not previously authorized, $200,000.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Total department, special warrant, $36,000.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.