This is page numbers 261 - 296 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 282

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, signage is an ongoing issue and of interest to us, both ourselves and the department responsible for tourism. We also have an MOU with Alberta and we are working jointly with Alberta on signage to make sure we are consistent from one jurisdiction to another. I have had people tell me there are not enough Yellowknife destination signs from the Alberta side as you come into the territory. So for those kinds of suggestions for the travelling public, the national standard is one where, through the national uniform traffic control standards, they and we try to avoid as much linguistic signs as possible and have them more as symbols. They become universal signs. We would hope that people would understand that when they see the big buffalo signs, that what those means is you are possibly going to see a buffalo in that area without a long description of it.

On the other side, we want to look at our pull-offs and come up with something new that we can work with tourism on.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 282

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Ms. Lee.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 282

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn't want to spend an extra 10 minutes again on the signs, but I need to clarify some things here. I do agree that in northern Alberta, there are not a lot of signs about Yellowknife and you have to assume that going to Enterprise or Hay River, I think Hay River is the sign that will take you to Yellowknife. The questions I had were to do with the signs on Highway No. 3, especially past Fort Providence. When you are driving in the dark and it's the last stretch, there just aren't a lot of signs to let you know that you are getting closer to Yellowknife or Rae or the remaining signs. There are signs there, I am not saying there aren't, but they are just not... It would be helpful if they were more frequent. I don't know how expensive it is to put the signs up. I am thinking there are more signs now than there were even three years ago. Maybe it's a question of the budget being able to make it there or something, but I just wanted to add my voice to speak in favour of having more signs.

Onto the buffalo signs, there are other signs there that shows winding road, turning left, turning right or squiggly. Those are international signs with black marks on yellow backgrounds. I understand that. These buffalo signs are not. The initial buffalo signs past Fort Providence have very clear buffalo warnings on it, but the ones after that, and they were quite numerous, don't look like international signs where if you are in the Prairies, there are signs for deer, animals or something that are international signs. These are not. These are much bigger than international signs. They don't have a yellow background. It's just a shape of a buffalo and it's a huge sign and I appreciate that somebody just wanted to put it there to give us a warning, but they don't look that official. So I don't think you should assume that if you see a cardboard shape that looks like a buffalo on Highway No. 3 that you assume that that's what it means.

Perhaps that's right, but I think it would be better to err on the side of caution and get more consistent, more official looking signs. I don't think there are too many places around the world where you need to have buffalo signs, so maybe you don't have a standardized international sign. I do believe that this is not just a matter of asking people to understand what you mean. Signs have to say what they mean without asking too many questions and not having to guess too much. So I will end there and ask for another time. Thank you.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you. Mr. Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just in follow-up to the Member's earlier statement as well, I just wanted to point out that after this next round of construction on Highway No. 3, there will only be a little over 30 kilometres of unconstructed road. I believe that's to be done this summer and some the following summer. So we are getting that piece of bad road gradually narrowed down and we will have to find ways of finishing it quickly.

On the signs, we do have that special joint committee between ourselves, RWED and the resource management committee in Fort Providence looking at signage to warn people of bison. The big bison signs we have there now were developed jointly between RWED and ourselves. They are based on a standard that is used in Yoho National Park. There is no universal sign like that, like the little yellow and black ones and we do have some of those warning about bison, but we used what we thought was a reasonable standard. I'll take the Member's recommendations back to the committee and look at ways we can improve those signs.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Before I go on, I would like to recognize a constituent of mine up in the gallery, Mr. Russ Look. He's no stranger to most of us. Welcome to the Legislature.

---Applause

The Chair will recognize Mr. Nitah.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am not going to take too long here. I just wanted to make a couple of statements and ask a couple of questions. Mr. Chairman, the department has made some commitments and started some work last summer on chipsealing Highway No. 5 and Highway No. 6. My constituents in Fort Resolution were quite happy to see the chipsealing of Highway No. 6. It's good for the environment, good for tourism and good for safety.

However, Mr. Chairman, the Minister and his staff are quite aware that there was some dissatisfaction in the way the commitment was delivered. A very quick and dirty job was conducted last year, resulting in some problems with the chipsealing that the Department of Transportation, through their contracted staff, had to do the maintenance on.

Here is an opportunity where we've committed to the road and infrastructure of the road. By chipsealing it, we are protecting that infrastructure. We are protecting our investment, creating a safe product for the use of our constituents. We know we live in a very booming and economic time. We know the fact that community resources are in demand in the Northwest Territories. Here was an opportunity that was lost last season, but I think the opportunity still exists, as there are a number of kilometres of road that still need to be chipsealed, for the department to work with other government departments and other partners to develop a training program that will see people in training for engineering, for heavy equipment operations, surveying, traditional knowledge in determining where water flows and other environmental aspects of the responsibility get carried out. It's an opportunity that was lost for that short stretch of road that was chipsealed, but there's an opportunity for A Better Tomorrow, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask the Minister if he's given it more thought as this is not the first time and guaranteed this won't be the last time I will be bringing up this issue to the Minister of Transportation. Has he given more thought to those concerns that I brought to him and his department on more than one occasion? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 283

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, the Member and I have discussed this a number of times. I think generally it's a good suggestion. We want to continue to work with the current contractor. We are in negotiations now to finalize that for another period of time. So this is something that we'll take up with them because it would be part of their contract since they do the maintenance on that road for us.

When it comes to some of the more specialized areas like chipsealing, because there is a limited amount of chipsealing we are going to be able to do each year and the purchase of the equipment to do chipsealing is very expensive, we want to be careful before we enter into a contact with someone where they would buy that equipment where they would start doing chipsealing on a piece of road, otherwise they may find it's not a very good business venture to get into. Certainly on the training side, then yes we certainly want to work with the contractor over the longer term to do as much training as we can as we do our highway projects.

Because of limited money, I don't believe there is any chipsealing scheduled for this year on Highway No. 6. Thank you.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Nitah.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I guess there is no rush in coming up with the training plan since there is no chipsealing. It gives us more time to come up with more resources, develop a better partnership and relationship with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment so maybe they could give us some of their dollars for training dollars. I would just like to ask the Minister, what has the department learned from the limited chipsealing projects they started last year? Does it make sense to drop the chipseal down after you grade the road? You may find in both cases, they would have to build up the road a little bit so that the investment that we put in today would have a lasting effect. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

We agree with the Member that you don't just take an old piece of road and just dump some chipseal on it, it just isn't going to last. We do as much upgrading on the road and drainage work as possible and as we feel is necessary in order to have a reasonably good chance at chipseal lasting. There have been some difficulties, particularly last year with some chipseal that was put on in the fall. We will go back and fix those areas this year. I think last year, and probably every year, people want to see the chipseal. We are always under pressure to do more chipsealing. If we just did a lot of upgrading and rebuilding roads, they would get frustrated with us because we are never getting the chipseal done. So we try to get a balance in there and that balance is determined by the condition of the road, as well as the amount of traffic on it.

On Highway No. 6, like a lot of our other highways, generally the chipsealing is good but there are some spots that have to be repaired and we will do those ones. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Nitah.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as part of the balanced approach, are we going to see some upgrading on Highway No. 6 and Highway No. 5 and the other highways that we are going to be chipsealing in a year or two? I do believe on Highway No. 6 particularly, those areas that were troublesome after the chipsealing project was done were the areas that needed some upgrading, but where it was not done. I believe that's the assessment made by the travellers on the road. People from Fort Resolution made that assessment based on their traditional and local knowledge of that road. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, yes, we will work with the contractor. We will work with our own forces and try to improve on those areas. There are probably some areas where, in talking to some people, they could have told us putting chipseal down on this piece or that piece will not work. We will go back this year and fix all of those spots. In future years, we are budgeting $500,000 for the four years beginning 2004-05 right through to 2007-08 to continue to do the upgrades on that piece of road. How much we will have to spend upgrading the road, how much we will have to put into chipseal, I am not sure yet.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Nitah.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, through our discussions with the Intergovernmental Forum on Devolution, hopefully we will have a little bit more resources to play with. In the meantime, I do agree that through consultation and talking with people with the local and traditional knowledge that road system, you would have avoided some problematic areas after the fact. I would just like to put that issue aside for a moment.

Mr. Chairman, I want to reiterate my concern, once again, about those communities that are linked only by air. Communities like Lutselk'e, Wha Ti and Wekweti and those communities that rely heavily on air traffic, our own transportation link, our lifeline that is the airports. I am still concerned that there is no training for specialized firefighting such as fuel fires. God forbid if there is ever a plane crash in one of our airports and we can't get that plane off the ground or off the airstrip, how we plan to deal with the emergency situation on that particular airstrip. Most communities don't have the equipment, let alone the personnel to do it. That's one area. I am not going to ask specific questions because I have asked questions in the past and they have never been answered.

The other area I want to ask the Minister to give some thought and to put it on public record, Mr. Chairman, is our position on asking for and receiving more over-the-Arctic flying schedules and routes. There is a concern that I have regarding greenhouse gases that the jet stream left behind by the jets stays up there, high above, 30,000 or 40,000 feet and doesn't disappear acting like a blanket over our northern environment. That's a theory that's been shared with me. I wonder if the department has ever looked at that theory, has ever discussed that theory with their federal and other provincial counterparts and if there is any validity in that theory. We should easily determine, since the fall of the Soviet Union and the increased traffic over the pole if there has been a difference in the environment. Last summer was a very depressing summer in the Northwest Territories. The rain never stopped. We are seeing more and more of those summers. We have seen more and more of those summers since the fall of the Soviet Union and the polar route has been opened up for air traffic. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 284

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 285

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, just on the issue about emergency services and how well prepared we are to respond to them, how well prepared the people are in the communities. Last November, the emergency measures organization, our department, did a tabletop or mock exercise on emergency situations. We found that the people in Lutselk'e were very well prepared to handle that kind of situation. We do that on a regular basis. We work closely with each EMO in doing that because a lot of the responsibility falls to that organization. We will continue to give that as much emphasis as we can afford to.

On the issue of the pollution from high flying jets and so on, the upper air space is under the jurisdiction of the federal government. As a department, we certainly do not get involved in monitoring what is happening and the changes taking place since the fall of the Soviet Union and so on, but those are issues that may be better directed to the Minister for environment, Mr. Antoine, because that is something that they would be dealing with the federal jurisdiction. Our department has not done any monitoring of that kind of situation. Thanks.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 285

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Nitah.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 285

Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the Minister for his answer. I am glad that the people in Lutselk'e are doing well. I am still worried about not just Lutselk'e, but the other communities. Doing something in mock preparation it is easy to see that it is done well, but if a firefighter crew or community crew has not experienced a fuel fire before then it is pretty hard to make an assessment based on something that is not real. That is one concern. It holds true not just for Lutselk'e, but my concern is for all the communities that are all interconnected by the airport system.

My concern over the greenhouse gases over the Arctic resulting from the over-the-top routes is environmental, but I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that it is the responsibility of the Department of Transportation. I am asking from a Member's perspective that the Department of Transportation gets into a discussion with the federal transport so that maybe somebody can ask from the Northwest Territories, by flying over the North are we seeing more greenhouse gases as compared to when that route was restricted significantly? And if it is the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development that has to ask that question, so be it. It is because the planes are flying, flight traffic is the responsibility of Department of Transportation at this point in time. That is the reason I am asking that question from the Minister.

Another area that I would like to ask a question is in the area of emergency response teams. You rely on the Canadian military to do so. Our chief coroner, Mr. Kinney, has expressed or made us aware of a gap where our emergency response teams from the Canadian military comes from outside our jurisdiction taking many hours to get into our jurisdiction. Just to use this code, Mr. Chairman, by the time they get off the ground it is no longer a search and rescue; it is a search and recovery. Has the Minister given this any thought? Thank you.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 285

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Minister Handley.

general Comments
Standing Committee On Governance And Economic Development Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 285

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, let me say that we do these mock exercises, table top exercises, live exercises on emergency response regularly. We do it at all 27 airports in the Territories and given the limited capacity in a lot of the smaller communities I think we are doing the best we can along with the EMO.

On the issues of the higher altitude pollution and so on, I will talk to Mr. Antoine about that one. I do not know. I do not know if the pollution stays there or if it is blown around. There are some pretty strong winds blowing at high altitudes, 100 and 200 mile an hour winds that are blowing it. So there is probably a lot more pollution all over the globe as a result, but it may not necessarily be caused by jets that are flying directly over us. It could be blowing in from anywhere. I will talk to the Minister of environment about it.

On the military and reliance on the military, yes, they come out of Winnipeg or Trenton, Ontario or somewhere a long ways from here. When they respond to emergencies they are on 24-hour call and they are off the ground pretty quickly if an ELT goes off or something like that. Again, we are not directly involved in it as a department. We understand that there is a joint committee made up of federal agencies responsible for emergency response in remote areas -- it includes DND and the RCMP and I am not sure who else on it -- that are looking at the issue that Mr. Nitah is raising with us. I think it is one that is looked at seriously by all of us. Thank you.