Thank you, Mr. Handley. Directorate, not previously authorized, negative $32,000.

Treasury, not previously authorized, negative $45,000. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are being asked to pass these budgets, and one of the most important things that MLAs do around here, or MLAs in this legislature and any other legislature, is to pass a budget and pass legislation. But even though the information that I have in front of me is about as detailed as you're going to get, there is a very serious lack of detailed information that would allow you for comparison. Dollar figures mean nothing unless you can compare it with something. You have to be able to come up with a percentage of something, or it's an increase of something, or a decrease of something. But having a figure that says a $33,000 reduction and a $12,000 reduction, it doesn't give us enough information to make a judgment about what the impact of that might be.

Another thing, Mr. Chairman, is when we debate and pass the main budget, Ministers and government argue tooth and nail for every cent that they come here for review and passing. But in this case, we are given every line, line by line, for all the reductions and they're going to make due with what they have. So I think it's sort of a contradiction in the presentation and that should be noted.

Mr. Chairman, under fiscal policy, a reduction of $45,000; out of $45,000, $12,000 will be in reduced travel, and that would mean staff training and less contact with federal and provincial counterparts. Once again, this is a section that works on figuring out our budget and talking to the federal government about our tax regime and different calculations and different adjustments. So is the Minister not concerned that this might reduce their capacity to carry out their work? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, as I've said several times tonight, certainly this has some impact. It has minimal impact. But, Mr. Chairman, we pay deputy ministers and their staff a lot of money to manage departments, and they're very competent people in being able to do that. We wouldn't normally being doing this kind of micro-managing review here. If they don't have all the information here, then I would suggest go back to the business plan documents, go back to the main estimates we passed this spring, and take that information and compare it to this. You'll have it all there. This is not a new budget, as Ms. Lee is calling it. This is supplementary appropriations; changes, adjustments to the budget that we've already passed. So we can't provide all that same micro-detail on the budget again, we've gone through that process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Ms. Lee.

Well, I guess the problem is in some sections that information is provided right here, like the one where the deputy minister's office is cutting their travel expenses or contract services by 10 percent, but in other sections they don't give that. So I think it speaks to as much of inconsistency in the way the information is put together, as much as the fact that this is a supplementary budget and it arises out of the main budget that we passed. Also, we know that even in business plans or the main budget, we don't get all that detailed information unless we ask. I mean, the budget document would be five feet tall if we had as much information as the Minister suggests that it does. Sure, you're given a general number, and if anybody wants to know, we are...(inaudible)... But I don't remember ever sitting anywhere and asking line by line every item. I mean, we had reviewed routinely hundreds of thousands of dollars of expenses. So I guess, Mr. Chairman, I have no question there.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, there was no question.

Treasury, not previously authorized, negative $45,000.

Fiscal policy, not previously authorized, negative $16,000. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, once again under fiscal policy, the reduction of $16,000 means delaying the hiring of a staff position, except I don't know how you get anybody for $16,000, but anyway. The impact is that it will be a reduced or delayed research for formula financing and/or devolution. So I'd like to ask the Minister... I don't believe that fiscal policy section is a very big section of the department, and the Finance department is small to start with. So I'd like to know what is the current complement of staff there, and is this a new vacant position? It says here there will be a delay in hiring of a staff position. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, the fiscal policy section has, I believe, five people in it. The $16,000 savings here is by a delay in hiring one staff position. It's probably a delay of a couple of months. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once again here the impact is reduced or delayed research for formula financing and/or devolution. So these are two agenda items for the government. We have to be careful about what we say, because if we say the impact will be minimal, then you have to question why was the... What I'm saying is we know that these are two important areas, so we know it's going to have an impact. So for a contrary argument to say the impact will be minimal, that just doesn't go together because we know that this government and the Ministers have spent months and months and weeks and weeks meeting with the federal Finance Minister, with the Prime Minister, and they've made arguments to them and we are on the verge of renegotiating the formula financing agreement, and we had a business coalition outside of the government to go and lobby on behalf of the government, and we know that the whole agenda of devolution we want to move as fast as possible. It's one that this government has been working really hard to concentrate on. So I'd like to know more detailed information about what this position was meant to do in the first place. What sort of research work on formula financing and/or devolution that we will have to do without or do less of. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, it's the deputy minister's assessment that we are keeping pace quite well, on both formula financing and financial issues around devolution, without this expenditure of $16,000. She feels she can economize. It is important but, as the Member will notice, we are economizing in a lot of important areas. But we are going to manage well in times of restraint. Exactly what this person would have been doing or will be doing when they come on staff, I'm not sure. They likely will be doing a lot of research on various options we need to consider, and factors we need to consider in negotiating a new formula. Of course, devolution talks are in the early stages, and again we'll see where that one takes us in terms of what research we have to do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Fiscal policy, not previously authorized, negative $16,000.

Bureau of Statistics, not previously authorized, negative $13,000. Ms. Lee.