This is page numbers 965 - 1056 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have been waiting for some time to see some of these programs being implemented. We are working on a lot of issues, but I would just like to know, when will these dollars actually be expended or these programs being delivered? How soon can we see these programs up and running in our communities ensuring we have alcohol and drug programs and services in our communities and in the Beaufort-Delta region?

Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the recommendations and items I just laid out in my last answer speak to services currently there which we are trying to improve, recognizing the need to better coordinate, to recognize more effectively through remuneration of pay and benefits that alcohol and drug workers should receive, but have not been over the years. The need for training. The other recommendations we will work on. So those are currently services that are there that we are looking to improve. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the biggest challenge we have with the addiction programs and services is the lack of actual programs to deliver that service. I would like to ask the Minister, exactly what is this department doing to implement a program in the region to assist people who have been refused work because they have not passed the alcohol and drug tests? Can they go to a program in the region so that they can try to get back in the workforce?

Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at present we have arrangements with Nats' Ejee K'eh in Hay River as our main alcohol and drug treatment facility. We also have arrangements with the Salvation Army in Yellowknife for some services, as well, which are being expanded. But, Mr. Speaker, there are no facilities or institutional alcohol and drug treatment programs outside of that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. The final question for question period, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at one time we did have a program under the Tl'oondih Healing Program in Fort McPherson, but because of lack of funding it was closed. The Tl'oondih Healing Society is still working at trying to get programs up and running. So I would like to ask the Minister, if he has been requesting proposal after proposal, they have put proposals in, but they have not got an answer back. So there is an effort from the region to try and get something going. I would like to ask the Minister, knowing that these proposals have been submitted to your office, how soon will you take action either to implement those proposals or let the clients out there know that they don't have any hope of getting any money from this government. Let's do something rather than keeping them waiting for you to make a decision.

Supplementary To Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 326-14 (6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am assuming that the Member is referring to the funding that's out there and the request for proposals that was made for the social agenda pilot projects. That date has been moved ahead a couple of weeks to allow the communities more time to submit their proposals, but we still plan to review and have the pilot project funding allocated in July.

Further Return To Question 326-14 (6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Question 326-14(6): Alcohol And Drug Treatment Services In Aklavik
Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 989

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The time for question period has ended. Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development.

  1. Could the Minister please provide information stating the number of businesses that are registered under the business incentive policy?
  2. Could the Minister please provide information regarding the ownership of BIP businesses. Specifically, how many BIP businesses are truly northern-owned, that is, not a subsidiary of another southern company, and how many are subsidiaries of a southern corporation?
  3. Could the Minister please provide detail of how much government money is used to finance the business incentive policy?
  4. Could the Minister please provide detail of how much BIP money is directed to companies that are subsidiaries of southern-owned corporations?
  5. Could the Minister please provide information regarding the average number of employees registered to BIP businesses?
The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services with regard to child protection services.

  1. Can the Minister list the number of children receiving services in the Mackenzie Delta region?
  2. Can the Minister give me the status of children in care, placement of children and the number of children who hold apprehension status?
The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Any further written questions? Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to Opening Address. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Mr. Krutko's Reply
Item 10: Replies To Opening Address

June 11th, 2003

Page 990

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one thing I have noticed in my two terms in this Legislature is that we've seen the bureaucracy of this government continue to grow. The latest numbers we've had is almost 25 percent growth in the government. Yet, Mr. Speaker, people in small communities have seen programs and services decline in our communities.

We've seen frontline agencies such as alcohol and drug positions disappearing from our communities. We've had more closures of our health centres because of pressures on our nurses. Mr. Speaker, the whole area of deficit recovery is upon us again.

Going into the 13th Assembly, as Members, we had to cut over $100 million with regard to the budget and the deficit we are in. The first place those cuts hit was community capital projects and programs and services. Through the amalgamation of heath and social services into one central agency, the delivery mechanisms of health and social services in our communities have been affected. The area that I mentioned earlier about alcohol and drug programs in the Northwest Territories is a failure to the point where we only have one alcohol and drug treatment facility in the whole Northwest Territories to serve the residents of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, we see activities happening around us where this government has spent millions of dollars on strategies, studies, report after report. Yet, from a community perspective, we never see these studies, reports or strategies. We haven't seen an improvement of programs and services in our communities. We haven't really seen a system of government that reflects the needs of the people it serves, especially the people in our smaller communities.

For everything that we get in our small communities, we either have to fight, beg, steal, borrow, do whatever you have to do to get something because that's the only way you are going to get it. The government of the day is not doing what it is intended to. The bureaucracy continues to grow, the government continues to get bigger and fatter, but when it comes to programs and services. That is the biggest challenge we face as communities.

We face challenges in dealing with day-to-day programs and services, such as the question of children who are in care in the Mackenzie Delta region. We have 58 children in the Mackenzie Delta region who are in care. That is the next generation. They are the next leaders. They are the next generation who are going to be leaders in our communities. For me to see children and their families broken up because of economics, because of depression, because of alcohol and drug abuse, when we as a government can't even provide frontline services, where are they supposed to go in our communities? We don't have people delivering alcohol and drug programs. We don't have mental health workers or counselling services. We have a lot of people who are overworked trying to cope with the day-to-day stuff of maintaining our communities.

The problem we see in the NWT and in the small communities is the lack of capacity. Capacity, in the sense of having the people and the resources to ensure that the program services we say we deliver to the communities are realistically funded so that they can run a program knowing the infrastructure and resources are there to take on that responsibility. As a government and as a community, there seems to be two different frames of mind.

We've seen the government grow by some 25 percent since division. Everybody assumed with division, we were going to become a smaller territory with a smaller bureaucracy with better services, but it definitely went the other way. The level of government didn't decline. If anything, it increased by 25 percent. The cost of operating the government has increased, the cost of service has decreased. So if you tell me that division was going to make us better off than we were prior to division, I say what we got from division is more sub-committees, more departments looking at new strategies, energy strategies, non-renewable resource strategies, hydro strategies and the list goes on and on. As a government, was that a stalling tactic? We find ourselves in a position where we have to go back to the community after three years in this legislature and tell our people that we have expended ourselves into a deficit situation, so we are now going to cut programs and services again to your communities, after we already did that in the 13th Assembly.

I am totally dismayed when I hear about the situation in most communities. It doesn't dawn on the government that we have this number of people living in unhealthy communities because we are not providing basic services.

We talk about doctors, nurses, frontline workers, teachers, the people who make the services grow. It's the service itself that has been affected. We've been fighting to ensure we have enough dollars to pay our teachers, pay the nurses, pay the doctors, but I think on the other hand because we put so much focus on the human resource side, we forgot about the human side and the effect on the programs to the people we are providing the service to. We have definitely not seen a decline in the number of people who require more services, who require medical attention and more income support assistance, health and social services assistance and medical assistance. If we had provided the services at the front end, we wouldn't be paying that amount of money at the back end.

I believe that this government has to do more to ensure that we track the dollars expended by this government right from the top, all the way to the bottom, from the service providers to the service itself. The government can see a lot of where these dollars are expended. We come to this House, we look at the budgets, look at the supplementary appropriations and see the enormous amount of money we are spending on capital infrastructure. We are spending some $50 million to build a jail here in Yellowknife. We've spent millions of dollars building facilities such as young offenders' facilities, women's facilities and the list goes on. Now we find out we have a facility in Inuvik which we spent almost $7 million on, and it doesn't even have a client in it. Yet, we have 15 people working there at a cost of $1 million a year to run it, but we say we don't have money for programs and services.

I have had a hard time trying to explain to the people back home what this government is really here for and who they are here for. People point their fingers at us and say you guys from government. That means me, I presume, being perceived as being government because I sit in this Legislative Assembly working with my colleagues on the other side, the government, the Cabinet and us on this side. They think we make decisions on everything we try to do together and work together, it seems like we are one big happy family, but realistically I am frustrated knowing that everything I say, anything I try to do, either someone on that side of the House doesn't listen to it or someone in the bureaucracy doesn't want to do anything about it.

I think this government has been dictated to by the bureaucracy to a point where the decisions made on that side of the House aren't really made by individuals on that side of the House. It's made by someone sitting in a back room at a typewriter developing policies and procedures saying, I am in charge, this is the policy and you have to follow the policy. Who makes the policies? It's this Legislative Assembly who makes the legislation, implements the guidelines so we can make good regulations and policies, so we implement what we pass in this House.

We develop a policy or legislation and bring it into the House and say this is what the intent was, then someone turns it around and their version of our intention is totally the opposite. This government passes regulations or policies so complicated and cumbersome for the people in the Northwest Territories because there are so many hoops and loops and scoops you have to go through to receive services. It's so cumbersome to get anything out of this government that people are frustrated to the point where they don't even want to talk to the government. It's true.

For our seniors to get a fuel subsidy or deal with their property tax exemption, every year they must go in and fill out an application, prove to the government that they should get it, and they find out later because a grandchild or nephew or a family member stayed with them for a period of time to keep them company, they don't qualify. That's not fair.

It's been quite sometime since we really took a close look at where we have gone since division. Division was supposed to give us a chance to not only have an opportunity to start over, but also to really take a good look at how we can improve government in the Northwest Territories. Improve it, not just continue at the pace the government worked before, but change the system for the better. I think that's a step we forgot about after division. We kept on rolling full speed ahead. Nothing has changed. We will just keep doing what we are doing. We found ourselves coming in from the 13th Assembly having to deal with a deficit before division, and now after division we find ourselves having to deal with a deficit again.

We are a population of 40,000 people getting some $900 million and we can't run a government on $900 million? There is something wrong with this picture. When you figure that out on a per capita distribution compared to other jurisdictions in Canada ... When I got to meet with senators and people in parliament, the MPs, and said we need more money in the Northwest Territories, they took a good look at me and said, what size is your population, 40,000 people? I have 500,000 people in my riding. I represent this many people and my budget is nothing close to what you are getting. We have to realistically look at where that money is really going.

When we have 4,500 employees, and we've seen an increase of 25 percent in the last three-and-a-half years, that tells me where the money is going, but is it being spent in the right place? We've seen a decline in the programs and services with regard to doctors and mental health workers and alcohol group workers. I think it's important to really look at where we've gotten in the last three years and where we are going. Just sitting down the last couple of days with the Minister of Finance and going through the cuts that are taking place, the cuts seem to be again focussed at the service end of programs and services. We see a decline in services such as ferry operation services. We see a decline in services by way of programs and services. There are cuts to programs that are essential to improving the services we already have.

I don't believe as a government we should be cutting essential services such as transportation services or alcohol and drug programs and education programs. Those services are the lifeline that keeps us going in the Northwest Territories. Yet, we see large amounts of money being expended in the area of government studies.

One thing that we seem to have forgotten about is the whole idea of where the money is going. We have some 30-odd communities in the Northwest Territories. Out of that, 27 communities are non-tax-based communities. Those communities have seen a major decline in government program responsibility through the practice of offloading programs to the communities.

In the last number of days in the House, we talked about the Public Service Act. We passed the human rights legislation in this House to improve the rights of people in the Northwest Territories by ensuring that we have similar rights for men and women, but also we have the right to ensure that every person has the right to programs and services, and also to ensure that they receive the fundamental, basic rights as every other Canadians. Yet in our communities we have programs and service delivery agencies employing mental health workers, income support workers or economic development workers under government contract and paying them less than the government when they were doing it themselves. I feel that that is a total injustice, contrary to the fundamental principle that programs and services will be consistent throughout government and that the service that is provided will be adequately funded. We see income support workers receiving some $30,000 compared to a government person in the bureaucracy receiving some $50,000 odd, or a mental health worker who has taken the training and is a certified qualified mental health worker, receiving a lump sum of $50,000 not only for salary but to run the program. Anywhere else it would be $85,000 in the government. Yet communities are told that's what we're giving you so that's the money you get to run your service.

The pressure on these frontline workers in our communities and the mental health workers, and worst of all is the income support workers, the amount of pressure that is on these people just to provide the basic services and the pressures that are put on them from the people who are requesting that service is enormous.

The health and wellbeing of the people in our communities has to be seriously considered. The people in those small communities don't' have the essentials of being able to pick up a phone, make an appointment and walk to the doctor's office that afternoon. You get to see a doctor once a month. You have to put your name on a list to go see a doctor once a month. If you want to see a specialist or go to a hospital, you either have to get flown to Inuvik or get your own ride to Inuvik to get that service. You're lucky to see a dentist once a year when he does his tours in communities. The quality of service that this government provides has declined in the communities. I feel that that is not just.

The capital allocation process again has come to light. We hear from the Minister there is a committee going around talking to communities about what we can do to deal with your capital allocation. The song they were singing a couple of years ago hasn't changed. They're still going into our communities saying we're hear to listen to you on what capital allocations you need, but before you ask, we're going to tell you you have to follow three criteria. The criteria are protection of assets, protection of people, and protection of infrastructure for the government. Who owns the infrastructure? The government. Who has the biggest assets in the communities? The government. They own the schools, they own the health centres. Yet when the community wants a simple thing to improve the lives and conditions of the community and children, a simple thing such as an outdoor skating rink, this government can't find the resources to provide and improve the quality of life in our communities.

We tell the government our water systems are contaminated by parasites, and we need a letter filed by a doctor saying that, to pinpoint the problem, there must be studies done on the residents of that community to ensure that the parasite that he's looking for is actually there. Where's it coming from? It has to come from somewhere. But again, a letter has been issued, it's gone to the health board, it's gone to the Minister of Health, it's gone to the government, yet no money is made available for a study. Yet the Minister stands up in the House and files a report saying everything is great, all your water problems were taken care of. One of the biggest causes of death in our community is cancer, and everybody is pointing their fingers at the water sources. In order to pinpoint the problem we have to do a study, but this government has no money to do studies to ensure that the lives of the people in our communities are taken care of. Yet when we want to do a study for an energy strategy, we spend some $2 million setting up a little office for a boys' club and tell them, okay, travel around the Northwest Territories and tell everybody some of these great ideas on energy that you have in the back of your head. We can spend $2 million to do an energy strategy that isn't worth the paper it's written on, yet we don't have any money to ensure the health and wellbeing of the people of the Northwest Territories by pinpointing the problem of cancer cases in our communities.

I think it's time that this government took a real close look at... What are we doing on this side of the House that realistically gets through to the people on that side of the House? We stand here time after time after time and ask the same questions over and over and over and get the same answers which are so fluffy that you can't even figure out did he answer my question or did he give me just a little area of saying we'll look at it, we'll look at it, we'll deal with it later, I have to do a study, we have to go back and get more information, or we have to have a department look at it. This government can find money that's not even in the budget or the main estimates that are brought to this House every year and are voted on through the supplementary process. We have capital items in the supplementary appropriation that have not even seen the light of day in the main estimates. We have capital projects that this government has approved that never even went through the business planning process, that didn't even show up in the main estimates. We're talking millions of dollars.

If you look at this with a microscope and look deep down and figure out who made that decision, it's the people on that side of the House that made the decision in a Cabinet meeting to approve expenditures which have not been previously authorized, yet it comes in by way of a supplementary which we on this side of the House can't do anything about because the money has already been spent. Even if we wanted to pull the budget item out of the supplementary, realistically the approval has already been made by Cabinet to spend the money. I think that's the type of message that should get out there to the public so they can see exactly how public money is being expended and who's expending it.

I find it awfully frustrating that communities have to struggle and have to be accountable for the public funds to run programs and services, yet we still have some communities that continue to run deficit after deficit year after year and get bailed out by this government. Or else they find some fund that just got pulled out of the sky, saying let's reclassify it as extraordinary funding or give it some fancy name and we'll sneak it through by way of a supplementary and we'll give you funding that no one else is going to get. It's only going to one or two communities, but what about the other 30-odd communities out there that are struggling just to maintain the finances they have?

I think as a government we have to implement deficit recovery legislation. With the deficit situation that we're in, we cannot continue with the attitude we'll spend our way out of a deficit. For me, that's bad business management when dealing with public funds. We have to improve the rules under the Financial Administration Act so that no supplementary expenditures can be made except those that have been previously authorized through the main estimate process in this House, so there's no way of having dollars scrutinized after they come through a supplementary. As a Minister or as a government you can just shrug your shoulders and say they can't do anything to me because I've already spent the money, so excuse me. I think establishment of legislation that deals with deficits and government spending would tighten things up so that this government cannot continue to use supplementary appropriation unfairly, unjustly and for their personal gain for personal use by a Minister in his particular riding because he knows he has the power to do so.

Mr. Speaker, when we came into office we established a whole bunch of vision statements to improve the vision of the Northwest Territories and focus on improving the lives of the people and the services we deliver. As a government we would grow with development, conclude the negotiation of land claims and the implementation of self-government. Yet, Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House we participate in committees such as AOC or GED or Social Programs, and time and time again we offer advice to the other side of the table, submit reports in this House trying to find ways of improving programs and services in the government, and making the government accountable. But what we've seen is that we probably have more strikes than we have checks in accomplishing things that we started off to do. We came in with great plans, but as we go to election I think we've failed badly in implementing the agenda that we set for ourselves at the start of the 14th Assembly.

One of the most important aspects of the Northwest Territories is the people. We have people in the Northwest Territories living in poverty, yet we have diamond mines. We talk about pipelines, while having a major housing crisis, a major healthcare crisis, and a deficit. Somehow we have to either change the way we do things or find a new system of government. This government has served the people in the Northwest Territories well. But like anything that we work through or work under, we need to also evolve. That change means changing for the better or changing to improve the government as we know it.

We are probably the envy of most jurisdictions in Canada because we have diamond mines. They know we have oil and gas potential. They know we have a renewable resource that's spectacular, more vibrant and larger than most jurisdictions in the country, yet everything we do seems to flow south. The diamonds are being pulled out of the ground as we speak, and flown to Antwerp. In 20 or 30 years, they're gone. They're not coming back.

Through the Norman Wells pipeline some 33,000 barrels of oil flow every day to the south. Using the rough estimate of $25 a barrel, that's about $300 million a year flowing to the south. Yet we as a government are struggling to provide basic services to the communities and the people in the Northwest Territories such as proper housing, proper programs and services. For a government to have a deficit despite this much wealth tells me that we have to change the arrangement we have with Ottawa and make them aware that we require it through whatever means. We talk about the resource revenue sharing negotiations. One of the ideas that was raised in the 13th Assembly which caught a lot of people's attention was taxation, taxing those resources that are leaving the Territories and will not make their way back, but at least once they leave we'll get something out of it. Right now we are not getting anything because the royalties are going directly to the federal government, and corporate taxes are making their way directly to the federal government. I feel as a government we have to quit being the nice guy and demand that our resources and those dollars stay in the Northwest Territories. If that means consideration of new tax regimes or mineral taxes, we should consider it. It's a source of generating revenues. You can't expect to get any more tax revenues out of 40,000 people. I think as a government we have to do more to ensure that that happens.

Mr. Speaker, one thing about this government that disappoints me is the implementation of land claims. We had the Inuvialuit claim which was negotiated back in 1994. We have the Gwich'in land claim agreement which was negotiated in 1992, and the Sahtu agreement which was negotiated in 1995, yet none of the legal authorities that this government is responsible for have been implemented.

The Wildlife Act amendments and the Wildlife Act provisions which will bring those land claims into effect through legislation will not going to see the light of day in this government. We spent a lot of money on public consultations and negotiations, yet we don't even have draft legislation in place yet. The last time any legislation was brought to this House was in 1994, as amendments for the Inuvialuit Final Agreement to enact their wildlife provisions. Nothing has been done to ensure that this government implements those sections of the legislation that we are responsible for enforcing. We as a government are responsible for wildlife management, municipal lands and also looking at the economic measures, the chapters of the different agreements, and also the participation sections of the Inuvialuit agreement. Those sections are there because they were supposed to improve the lives of the claimant groups to make them more self-sufficient, and also offer them the ability to implement their land claims, manage the lands and resources, the wildlife so that when pipeline developments or mining development comes through either submission of a pipeline application for a mineral lease or a claim to develop a particular area, those bodies and those arrangements that are spelled out in the agreement will have the legislative authority presently in the hands of the government 's Ministers. The land claims provide for the passage of regulations so that these boards and bodies and agencies can have a meaningful role in the development that takes place in their jurisdictions through the environmental assessment process, through the regulatory process, and also through the establishment of those bodies so that they have the full effect and authority that comes through legislation.

This government has a lot of responsibilities in the different land claim agreements. It says "the government shall". It doesn't say they may or they might, it says they shall do these things in the land claim agreements. To me, that says they have to do something. But when you go to the government with the different land claim agreements and say okay, look, there's a chapter in here that says the Government of the Northwest Territories shall carry out a particular responsibility, they say it's the federal government's responsibility. Well, the federal government isn't the Government of the Northwest Territories. The Government of the Northwest Territories is. The federal government also has responsibilities in these different agreements.

We've heard a lot in regard to the Gwich'in MOU which was signed between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Gwich'in Tribal Council. We've heard from a lot of groups out there that don't agree with it. Well, excuse me, welcome to the 20th Century, there's such a thing in place now called land claims. The next thing you're going to see coming on the horizon is self-government agreements, which will give the regional authorities self-government agreements, the authority to govern themselves, run their own programs and services, and deliver programs and services on behalf of the people they represent. I feel that the economic measures chapters of the different agreements, regardless of whether it's the Inuvialuit protection section or the economic measures sections of the Gwich'in and Sahtu agreements, are clear that, in carrying out activities in the settlement region which give rise to employment or economic opportunities, that the government elects to go into negotiations or contracts with the respective native organizations. It's in the land claim agreements. Yet for some reason, people out there assume that their rights are being trampled on because they're not going to be able to negotiate on a contract, or basically feel that they have the rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms under the Canadian Constitution. The land claim agreements comes under the Constitution, but it comes under a different section which is section 35 which recognizes the inherent aboriginal rights by way of legislating land claim agreements and also which will legislate self-government agreements in the future.

One thing that I'd just like to say in regard to negotiated contracts, which I know we've heard a lot about in the papers and the press, I have seen the positive side of negotiated contracts. I've seen a lot of young people who probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to become a journeyman carpenter, or mechanic, or a truck driver or an operator of heavy equipment. These people all started out with possibly this being their first job as a flagman or as a labourer, and made the choice that this is something I want to do. This is something that I feel I can make a living on, so that I can stay at home and feed my children and my family, and basically have the resources and the ability to house myself and not depend on government handouts. I can be an essential part of the community or an essential part of the Canadian or the Northwest Territories economy by getting certification through training programs, or job training, or go out of their way to go to southern Canada or elsewhere to get their journeyman tickets and be able to prove that they do have inter-provincial status by certification of licences, and also have the licences in place so that when development happens and when activities happen in our region and around our communities, they're able to take advantage of it. For me, that is the positive side of negotiated contracts.

Negotiated contracts have ensured that people of the Mackenzie Delta and the people in my riding can take home a paycheque to feed their families, can have the resources to maintain a home, and have the capability to take on other job opportunities, regardless of whether it's in their region or outside their region, because they are certified, qualified, and they have the ability to do the job, not because of who they are or where they're from.

Mr. Speaker, one area that I'd like to close on is the area in regard to the cultural and wellbeing of the people in our communities, and ensuring that the people in our communities have a say on the developments that are happening around us. One thing that I'm afraid of is that, with all these major developments that are going to happen and that are happening, that we don't lose the uniqueness of the Northwest Territories by way of our cultures, our identities and our communities. Our communities have histories that go back over 100 years, and even longer. Our communities have a lot of unique aspects to each one of them, regardless of whether it was because of the whaling industry, the fur trade, the pioneers, and also the developments that have come with it. But I think it's important that we preserve not only the community identity, but the identity of the people who live in those communities. We have a lot of people in our communities that have provided knowledge and experience on how things have changed in the North for the last 50 or 80 years, which is unique. Those people have a lot to offer to the rest of our Northerners who are newcomers to the North, with their understanding of how the Northwest Territories has evolved over time after the first contact with the Europeans and how they were able to help them survive in the Arctic environment by providing them with clothing and the survival skills to get them through the Northwest Territories and northern Canada.

We should sit back and realize the importance of not only our culture and our languages, but the uniqueness of the clothing and the different cultures and understand the uniqueness of our music and the entertainment and talent we have in the Northwest Territories. We share that with the rest of Canada and the world through the different drum dances, through the fiddle music, as well as the long history of how people were able to survive without government in the Northwest Territories and how it's affected their lives after the government came to be.

An area that concerns me is the proposed pipeline in the Mackenzie Valley and the development of our non-renewable resources and the impacts that will have on our renewable resources and the people who depend on them for their day-to-day food, the caribou, moose, ducks, muskrat, beaver, you name it. For them, that's their deep freeze. That's what sustains them in the small communities and as people in the Northwest Territories.

We have to seriously look at these developments in the context of the social and economic and environmental liabilities of these projects and ensure as a government that we provide the tools to the people in our communities to have meaningful involvement in these activities, so that we can have a say in where our burial sites are, where our culturally-protected areas are, where our harvesting areas are, and where our fishing, spawning and calving grounds are located. We must ensure that we protect our renewable resources while exploiting our non-renewable resources in the Northwest Territories.

So far we've heard a lot about discussions with the pipeline groups and industry, yet we hear very little discussion on what the communities think of this development. In particular, there is the little community of Tsiigehtchic who are very concerned about whether the pipeline is going to happen near Travaillant Lake. Travaillant Lake has sustained the Gwich'in people for thousands of years. That area, through the claims negotiations process, has been protected through surface and subsurface land allocation. The community has made it clear to industry it should take a different route and do more studies to see the migration patterns of the fish in that area and look at the sensitive ecosystems we have in northern Canada. What effect will this have on our permafrost? What effect will it have on our migrating caribou species? What effect will it have on the migration of our fish species? As a government, we must not put all our energy and emphasis on the non-renewable resources. There should be more emphasis on the renewable resources segment of our Northwest Territories economy and development of that relationship with the people of the Northwest Territories to ensure that we have everyone on board and that everyone has a meaningful part in the dialogue. We don't have lawyers in our communities. We don't have researchers at the tip of our fingers. Yet we have knowledge and history in the people of our communities that can be useful in the dialogue with any major pipeline developments or mining developments about the socio-economic impacts of the people of the Northwest Territories.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you for your patience. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Mr. Krutko's Reply
Item 10: Replies To Opening Address

Page 995

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Krutko. Item 10, replies to the Opening Address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Tabled Document 68-14(6): June 11, 2003, Letter
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 995

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a letter dated June 11th signed by six family doctors addressed to Mr. Woods, but cc'd to territorial MLAs.

Tabled Document 68-14(6): June 11, 2003, Letter
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 995

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a press release that was just released today from CBC North. Also I would like to table an e-mail that I received from a resident of Yellowknife.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled Interim Report of the Public Accounts of the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Tabled Document 71-14(6): June 11, 2003, Letter
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 995

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the documents I referred to in this House and committed to table at the appropriate time.