Mr. Chairman, I have to go by memory because I was raising some questions yesterday. I had a question about the concerns that the Union of Northern Workers had about the provisions in this act that they wanted to see addressed but they couldn't. Then I had a question about the implication of section 66, that we were wanting remain exempt because of the fact that we needed to have that exemption under the Human Rights Act. I do believe, Mr. Chairman, that there were a number of other questions that were raised, not only in the public hearing process, but also in the Accountability and Oversight committee. I believe one of the issues that was raised was about the fact that the government is proposing that there be a separate office created for the Public Service Act, rather than using the office that the government is proposing to create under the Human Rights Act that has already been passed. We are aware that implementation plans are being worked on. So I would like to ask the Minister what was the government's reasoning in going with the option of creating a separate office? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, the skills, training, and expertise of an equal pay commissioner are very specialized and probably quite different than the set of skills you would have with a human rights commissioner or members of the human rights board. These are not two functions that would easily be combined into one in our view. It's two different functions that we are dealing with here.

General comments. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May I have the Minister indicate exactly what the different functions are, and does he have any information he could provide to the House as to what kind of a review was done and what are the findings of the report that made the justification for the government to go this route? I would like to know the details of the qualifications of these two offices that the government has found and on what basis the decision was made to do so.

Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, as we have discussed in committee, the skills and expertise of an equal pay commissioner are very specialized in terms of the equal pay provisions, whether it's for equal pay for work of equal value or whether it's for equal pay for similar or the same work. We don't know that a human rights commissioner would have the same set of skills, but we do know for the equal pay commissioner, it is very specialized and a very complex field, as you will have noticed from the discussions we've had yesterday, we, as in committee, and that you have heard, I am sure, through the public hearing process. So there is no way that upfront, without knowing what the human rights commission skills would be, that we could roll them both together. These are two different functions. Thank you.

Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all, I believe everyone is aware that the information that we are provided with in committee is for the benefit and discussion and knowledge of the committee discussions and committee Members and it is not available to the public. Those documents that we were given are not necessarily before this House. I would like to have the Minister provide me and this House with more detailed information that indicates or shows us the complexity and specialization of the both the offices of the human rights commissioner versus the Public Service Act commissioner, because I am assuming that the government has done this work and that they have some information to base their decision to go with the option of creating a separate office. So I believe that in the interest of the public who is hearing this for the first time, that I have the right and obligation to ask that question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister Handley, before you answer that question could you introduce your witnesses for the record?

Yes, Mr. Chairman. To my left is Mark Aitken, director of the legislation division in the Department of Justice. As well to my right is Lew Voytilla, secretary to the Financial Management Board Secretariat, and Shaleen Woodward, manager of equal pay for the Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Mr. Chairman, I will ask Ms. Woodward to provide more detail on the differences between the human rights commission directors and commissioner and the equal pay commissioner. Thank you.

Just a reminder to the Minister to use the full name, not the first name when you... Ms. Woodward.

Further questions. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the answers as to the different qualities of work or expertise, but I am still not hearing anything that would justify the creation of a completely different office. I mean, they are in a similar field. I mean, if we could have Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development doing renewable resources and wildlife and environment and everything else that they do, I cannot imagine that it would be that difficult for these experts. While their work might be separate and unique, you know, I think there are more similarities between these two offices than many that we could find in government offices. Another thing I guess I have not heard is the importance of not duplicating an administrative structure. So you could have the human rights commissioner and the equal pay commissioner and maybe, I do not know, others, if you have offices like this you could be sharing administrative services and structures that could be a time and money saving measure, but not interfere with and in any kind of way detract from these two different experts with different sets of skills and qualifications to do their work.

The Minister responsible for the public service.

Mr. Chairman, let me clarify first of all that the equal pay commissioner is not necessarily a full-time person who occupies a government office all the time and so on. The intention is that someone with the expertise needed will be hired on a retainer and will be used as required and will be paid accordingly. They will also be provided with office space and whatever support is necessary when they need to deal with equal pay issues. The other point, Mr. Chairman, is that because equal pay issues have to be dealt with as expediently as possible, we need someone who is able to drop whatever it is they are doing and focus their full attention on the equal pay issue in front of them. There is no assurance that anyone in the Human Rights Commission would be able to have that kind of flexibility. Thank you.

General comments. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have further questions in the same area because I am sure there are lots of offices in government where, as important as these two commissioners' offices might be, where part-timers could share offices with each other. I guess it is not just about the physical settings of the office by layperson. I think by the analysis that the Accountability and Oversight committee Members were looking at and it was pointed out in the committee's report in response to this legislation that something like that should have been given more consideration. I believe I asked this question and that is whether or not the government and the Minister had conducted any kind of cost-benefit analysis, because from all the answers I have been given I do not see that different offices are required on the basis of their work. Even if that is the case then I would still like to know from the Minister whether or not he and his department's officials had given serious consideration to the concerns raised by the Accountability and Oversight committee Members about this and that the Minister should be looking at creating this office together. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Minister of the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, yes, we did and we wrote back to the committee chair on May 6th. Thank you.

General comments. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the interest of those who are listening to our debate, but have not had a chance to review that letter, could the Minister for the record state what his response was in that letter? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister Handley.