Page 18, Transportation, operations expenditures, corporate services, not previously authorized, negative $179,000.

Highways, not previously authorized, negative $1.242 million.

Ferries, not previously authorized, negative $270,000. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have concerns of cutting back on the ferry operations in the Northwest Territories. I feel the ferries are an essential service that is being provided to the public, especially for the movement of people, goods and services. For those months of the year where we only depend on ferry services, I think it's crucial that as a government we should not be cutting back on that public service to the residents of the Northwest Territories. If anything, I think we could probably find the $270,000 elsewhere within the departments. We've been going through the budget and we're seeing where the departments have been taking 10 percent of the transportation for travel budget to the tune of $10,000 here or $38,000 there. I think we could probably dig a little deeper in cutting back on transportation and make use of telephone conferencing and save a lot more than simply 10 percent in travel, to make up this $270,000. I strongly encourage the Minister to consider reinstating that $270,000 into our ferry operations so that we can have a stable transportation system that everyone depends on. For most of our communities that depend on road transportation the ferries are essential. From this cut, it will have an effect on the ferries in my riding, which we're looking at about an hour of delays a day because of having to meet these cuts.

So I'd like to ask the Minister would you consider looking at alternatives to that $270,000, and to not take any money out of the ferries operation because it is an essential service? I suggest that we take instead of 10 percent for travel across the board, let's look at 15. That's where we could make up the $270,000. When you see the travel budgets of the Premier and the Cabinet Ministers where you're looking at some $300,000 to $400,000 in each category, there alone you're only taking $38,000. If you add another five percent, you're looking at taking out $45,000. I think if you look at that area as a possibility of where we can save that money and not cut the ferry operations amount of $270,000. I would like to ask the Minister would he consider looking at alternative ways of getting these dollars out of the ferry operations. I'm not talking about anything else. I'm only talking about the ferry operations so that we can see that we do not affect the service that is being provided and finding that service deteriorating to a point where we're having to cut back on hours or cut back on the ferry operation itself. So I'd like to ask the Minister again, will he consider looking at cutting a little more off the travel budget to make up that difference of the $270,000?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, following earlier discussions in the committee on this issue, yes, I agree that the ferry operations are important to travelers and to people in the North. I have talked to my deputy minister about this one. I'd like to keep the $270,000 in here and, as Mr. Krutko says, try to find alternate ways of doing this. So we have started the exercise of looking at where we may be able to make up the amount and not affect the ferry operation so much. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. We're on page 18, Transportation, operations expenditures, ferries, not previously authorized, negative $270,000.

Community marine, not previously authorized, negative $50,000.

Community access roads, not previously authorized, negative $100,000. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The community access road program is a program that is an essential economic boost to the smaller communities who use this program to build up trails and roads. In other words, you're putting $75,000 into the local economy. I think that this government, without these little programs where the money is being used for an economic boost to our communities, we're spending a lot more than the $100,000 we're going to save here. I think if you figure out the amounts of money we're expending in social expenditures in our communities where we're going through some of the amounts we've spent in the communities on social services and other dollars by way of income support and other things, that you can see that the $100,000... This program was basically established to assist communities building small scale infrastructure. We're not talking about $1.3 million roads in communities, but we're only talking $75,000 a year, and I feel that this is a program that communities have been fighting for to try to find a program that they know is not a lot of money, but it will give them some economic boost each year to do little projects, such as an access road to a gravel source, or an access road to a particular lake. I think for cutting $100,000 which is more than 10 percent in the other areas, I think if you look at the cost to government... I'll use an example in regard to the service costs that we spent in the communities. In regard to social assistance in a lot of our communities where we're spending well in excess of $100,000 in regard to a community like Sachs Harbour. We're talking about communities like Tsiigehtchic where we spent somewhere in the area of $200,000. But for $75,000 putting it into that economy will give some people some work, will give them some small scale infrastructure. But for communities, those little projects really make a difference to somebody who is unemployed or is on income support. We as a government should be promoting these programs and offering communities these types of projects to give them that little boost in their economy. So I'd like to ask the Minister again on this one, will you consider looking at an alternative way of ensuring those dollars are there? At the end of the year if this money lapses, well, it's going to lapse, it's going to go back into the general revenues anyway. But at least having the core amount of $837,000 for the number of projects we got...

Just last year, the committee made a recommendation to this House, through our business plan reviews, increasing that amount which was previously $50,000 per year to a community for a project, a community access road project. But what we see in looking at the projects that have been allocated, for $50,000 you can't do much by way of hauling gravel or trying to fix up a road. So we changed the criteria to offer $75,000 per community for this community access road, up to a maximum of $450,000. So that's the extent of the project. This will only meet the needs of 10 communities. So for us to take $100,000 out of the project, which we're really only looking at offering this project to a lot fewer communities who want to access it. So I'd like to ask the Minister could you consider those projects that we have put in place to stimulate our communities remain so that those dollar could be a way of instead of paying social assistance, that this will be a way that people could get off social assistance and give them a little bit of wage employment and looking at the cost of this government to administer a program or offer a program like this. The savings that we as a government will be able, from making social assistance payments and having people go to work, outweighs the $100,000 you're trying to save here. So I'd just like to ask the Minister would you consider avoiding the $100,000 cut to this project?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, certainly I'll consider it. The difficulty that we have in Transportation is our money is basically tied up in a lot of projects in the various areas. It's difficult this early in the year to know whether or not we could possibly move some money from one area to another.

We did, Mr. Chairman, increase the base amount for the community access roads by $250,000, from $587,000 to $837,000. So even taking $100,000 out still leaves us with a $150,000 increase. Right now, Mr. Chairman, there is still free money in the community access road program that hasn't been applied for. So right now there is no need to go hunting around for more money. We still have a surplus in this pot. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Community access roads, not previously authorized, negative $100,000.

Road licensing and safety, not previously authorized, negative $84,000. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to get some clarification in this area regarding the economizing plans here which were to reduce this section by $84,000. I would like to ask the Minister, I'm aware that many offices, many contracts have been terminated in the communities for agencies and groups and different people that had contracts to issue licences and registration and all these types of requirements. For example, in my riding of Deh Cho, we have nobody that issues licences and registration or renewals any more for us. For the four communities that I represent, we have to travel to Hay River now or Yellowknife to get a renewal. So I'm assuming that there must be some savings in this whole area already. So I'd like to know if the Minister could give us what kind of savings we had. We've closed up quite a few offices, we've terminated quite a few contracts. We must have a surplus in this area.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Handley.