Next I have Mr. Villeneuve. I'm sorry, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the member's comments and sense of chagrin and displeasure of the Members. If I could just add this to the discussion here, the budgets that are done for health boards, since I've become Minister, there is no formula like there is with education. There is a process that has evolved over time, through historic use and ongoing forced growth in increments. We are in the process of trying to develop a funding formula.

With regard to this hospital, we, as a client, bought a design, we agreed to a design that was going to deliver these wonderful things in terms of space, new facility, energy efficiency, all these good things. We proceeded with that design on that, with those built-in assurances that this is the project that was going to be delivered. The facility was built. The budget that was there was the same budget that had run the old hospital. Because we didn't have any actuals in terms of the cost, we were told run the hospital before you come back for extra money to see what it is going to cost. We found out very quickly that, yes, this is a spanking brand-new hospital and it's twice the size and, in fact, it has twice the cost, contrary to the initial assumptions that we assumed were there and the assurances that we thought were built into this design. So the issue of did we buy a pig-in-a-poke, something, who miscalculated, those are all legitimate questions. We got a building that we, as a client, paid for, that the government paid for. We were the client, and that's what the expectation was. So now we came back after two years with the demonstrated actuals that says yes, this design didn't quite meet the specks, it cost lots more, and it's an investment we have and we have to fund it. We don't have to fund it, but it is a brand-new hospital that is providing a critical service. As we have learned once again, I mean what's on paper and what you buy, what you think you're getting and what you get when it's actually built, in this case didn't quite match, significantly didn't match.

So here we are with the reality. We have a nice hospital that is delivering a service, but it's costing more to run than what was budgeted; significantly more. So it's not an issue of the health board should be required to eat this as the client. It's a brand-new building. If we were off the mark on program spending, I would say yes, because we screwed up, because our estimates were really bad. But

we are talking engineers, architects, all these hard service guys who do this for a living. So I'm sitting here as a Minister saying we have to come forward through the department, and I don't mind taking the lumps when I'm in the wrong. But we got a building that was built for us, and it does not deliver in terms of the efficiencies and here we are. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Roland, would you like to add anything?

No, Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Miltenberger and other responses we have made have covered this area, and we have committed to provide more information on the estimates that were used to substantiate the initial costs or estimations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I'm noticing what time does the committee wish to...Mr. Zoe, your time was up earlier. I recognize Mr. Villeneuve.

I move that we report progress.

There is a motion on the floor, it is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will now rise and report progress. Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Voytilla. Thanks a lot.

Order, please. Could I have the report of Committee of the Whole? Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2003-2004, and Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2004-2005, and would like to report that Bill 14 is ready for third reading. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. The seconder? The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that Bill 10, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2004-2005, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 10 has had third reading. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 21, 2004, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:00 p.m.